Question:
Sorry I didn't get this up sooner! Been a little hectic! First let me say that this do NOT reflect my views, these are simply the views presented to me by the Hill's representitive that came to my clinic. He was very helpful and did not shy away from any of my questions. I have alot of info that he has given me so I will do my best to answer any questions you may have.


For my example from Hill's I will use t/d. For those not familar with it, it is their dental diet. If you pet is free of any ailments/conditions that it would benifit from the 'prescription' diets, this is the one they recomend.

(this is for the FELINE version)
Ingrediants: Chicken by-product meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, powdered cellulose 10% ( a source of fiber), pork fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), chicken liver flavor, vegetable oil, DL-methionine, taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, minerals (Calcium sulfate, potassium chloride, salt, calcium carbonate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), beta carotene, rosemary extract, vitamins, (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate [a source of vitamin C], thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement).

Definition provided of "poultry by product meal" (I am assuming this would be the same as for the chicken listed above):

Poultry by product meal consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unaviodably in good processing practices.

Guaranteed Nutrient content:
Protein: 34.0%
Fat: 18.1%
Carbohydrate (NFE): 34.0%
Crude Fiber: 7.5%
Calcium 1.01%
Phosphorous: 0.80%
Sodium: 0.33%
Potassium 0.80%
Magnesium: 0.065%
Taurine:0.16%

Target PH- 6.2-6.4

Not recomended for kittens, pregnant or nursing cats, patients with sever periodontal diesease without appropriate periodontal assesment and therapy, concurrent use of urinary acidifiers.


There main thing seems to be that while 'ingrediants' are great, the actual true nutritional values are often out of wack. This is especially true for food for 'all stages of life'. In order for this food to meet the standards for 'all stages of life' it HAS to be kitten/puppy food. This means that for your adult or senior pet they are getting alot of extra 'stuff' to digest. Particularily higher protein, calcium & phosphorous. In order to meet the appropriate levels of each age of the animal, Hill's argues that they can not do this successfully with meat as the base of alot of their diets. The meat holds onto too many things (such as phorphorous I believe he said) that they cannot 'remove' to acheive the appropriate levels for that diet.

For comaprisson, here is the Royal Canin Dental diet:

Ingredients
Chicken meal, rice, corn gluten meal, ground corn, chicken fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid), natural chicken flavor, pea fiber, powdered cellulose, dried beet pulp, dried egg powder, salmon oil, chicory extract, sodium tripolyphosphate, potassium chloride, sodium silico aluminate, soya oil, ground psyllium seed, calcium sulfate, sodium chloride, DL-methionine, L-lysine, choline chloride, taurine*, Vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C*), niacin, biotin, riboflavin (vitamin B2), d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid], Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate].

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude ProteinNot less than30.0%Crude FatNot less than15.0%Crude FiberNot more than7.0%
MoistureNot more than9.0%MagnesiumNot more than0.08%TaurineNot less than0.3%Vitamin ENot less than600 mg/kgVitamin C*Not less than300 mg/kgOmega 6*Not less than3.73%Omega 3*Not less than0.5%*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat Food Nutrient Profile.

Now unfortuantly the items don't 100% match for value comparisson. Unfotunatly too, I don't have the guranteed exact percentages for the RC, just the guaranteed mins' & max's. They do seem quite comaprable though. But the main things that catches my eye is CHICKEN MEAL (not by product meal!)

Defn of Poultry meal:

Poultry meal is the dry rendered product from the combination of flesh and skin with or without the accompanying bone, derived from parts or whole carcasses of poultry or combination thereof, EXCLUSSIVE of feathers, heads, feets and entrails. It shall be suitable for use in animal food. If it bears name for descriptive of it's kind, it must correspond thereto. (ie if it says chicken, it's got to be chicken).


So (here's my opinion), I do not see why they can not atleast upgrade the quality of the meat product used. But I do understand his point about alot of 'great ingrediant brands' not giving out true info or having the proper percentages of nuitrients. Aster's food (Canidae) is for 'all stages of life' so I am currently feeding her 'puppy food'. I still have not heard back from Merrick or Triumph on my requests for a better analysis of theirs foods If I ever do I will post the comparisson.

Feel free to ask questions. I am sure I have missed stuff. I will do my best to answer with the info provided


Answer:
Exactly what are you paying for, then? Those ingredients are almost identical to this crappy Pro Plan the vet gave us (my mice say thank you) except it lists CHICKEN first! That is so misleading- pricing it high to make you think it's good. Perhaps some of the prescription stuff is helpful and even necessary- so why even sell the regular crap? So if you feed it to our pet, they eventually end up needing the prescription stuff, no doubt.


Answer:
(Hill's speaking here) You are paying for the research that goes into the food, the guarantee that it meets the NUTRITIONAL needs of your pet (regardless of whether you agree with the source of nutrition) and that this food will benifit the *majority* of the average pets out there.




(me talking) O, one other thing I forgot to mention that just popped into my head. When he (the hill's rep) was showing all his comparissons he was using Old Roy as the comparee (sp? is that a word?). There reasoning being that they are attmepting to reach the majority of the 'common pet owner' and that Old Roy (atleast in the states) is the #1 selling brand ( ) I wish he did have a comparisson between a better brand and hill's for me, but he didn't.


Answer:
I do not see why they can not atleast upgrade the quality of the meat product used.
I do not have any problems with the nutritional values of these feeds, but the ingredients are atrocious!

And I have also wondered about "All Life Stages" foods. I have used them for the cats but it's just not practical for most adult cats. The extra fat and protein in the food is not necessary. I only feed adult food now. And feeding a senior food once your pet reaches the appropriate age is not a bad idea either. They do not need as much protein and extra protein can be harmful to their kidneys.

IMHO, the Hill's rep is grabbing at straws. I still feel that an All Life Stages food from a better company (CA Naturals, Innova, Wellness, etc.) would be more beneficial for a pet without ailments than feeding a food with ingredients such as Hill's uses.


Answer:
It just makes me sick knowing that vets push the Medi Cal & Hill's perscription stuff. I know when my Sncikers was first diagnosed with diabetes and I didn't know any better, the vet insisted I put him on the Medical first. Snickers ended up becoming really ill. He broke out in horrible sores all over his body. He was switched to the Hill's recommended one and we saw no improvement. I soon switched him back to his old food Nutro Natural Choice Lite. His sores went away and he has been doing fine on it. We have tried over the years with a number of the other types of dog food, CA Naturals, Innova, Wellness but he seems to do best on the Nutro. I know it's not the best food in some peoples opinions but it really does keep his sugar levels at a better rate. Snickers still does have many other health issues he is dealing so it's not in his best interest to swtich him at this late date in his life now.


Answer:
Well considering most vets only have the most basic of basic animal nutrition training..they know about animal dietary needs as much as I know about rocket science...which equals NOTHING...