Question:
Yes it upsets me that after seeing so much material presented on here about pet nutrition, people go on feeding the same old crap as before. I know it's not my problem, but I don't think it's fair to the animals. Brandy also asserted in the "dependency" thraed in general topics that she felt people who claimed to feed natural pet foods were actually *lying* in some cases, to be popular on POTN I guess!!!
My mother feeds Caesar & Purina dog food, & Friskies cat foods, to the animals under her care, & when I compare their condition to Hank's, it is night & day. Of course given that Friskies/Purina/Caesar all are based on actual *GARBAGE* (yes folks, that's what by-products are!!!), this is to be expected.
Another thing I don't get: people who feed their chins a top-quality food like Mazuri, but feed their dogs & cats whatever is cheap & convenient. Are cats & dogs not as good as chins?
A good rule to follow when it comes to nutrition is : "garbage in, garbage out". And if your animal happens to look healthy on cheap foods, I would suggest that they are beating the odds, just like I know people who eat @ McDonald's all the time & look radiant.
BY-PRODUCTS ARE *GARBAGE*. ANIMAL FAT (howeber the hell it is preserved!!) IS *GARBAGE*. BHT< BHA< ETHOXYQUIN< ARTIFICIAL FLAVOURS & COLOURS< & ANIMAL DIGEST ARE *GARBAGE*.
Let's wake up & smell the coffee folks, for the animals' sake!!!
I don't care what you & your kids eat, but please think of your pets. And if you think any of what I have just said is ungrounded, I invite you to re-read my threads in this section on foods to avoid, good foods, & ingredients. Isn't it worth paying more for the best food, rather than settling for something that you can only brag is "better than no name"? That's a pretty sad statement........


Answer:
Neuro,,,,,thanks for being concerned for my animals but you dont care if me and my kids eat crap???? Get off your high horse neuro,,,,,I really dont understand you and I didnt say everybody lies on here but if people do I understand why,,,,I know people who think I am crazy for paying what i do for Pedigree do i jump down their throat and go up one side of them and down the other,,,NO,,why becuase they are better off eating Pedigree and being in a very loving home where she is loved and spoiled to pieces than fed Nutro in a damn shelter,,,,I am not abusing my dog or any other thing I am simply feeding her what i find is suitable and not you,,,,simple as that,,,,,,,,,,as for the chins getting mazuri,,,well the only food I can get here is Living world and Riga and they are both super expensive for a small container and bag so if I want something cheaper in bulk I have to order it from sussex and my dad brings it up to me so why not get Mazuri when Chin chow checkers is the same price??? If Nutro was the same price as pedigree yah maybe I would consider switching he over but until that happens,,,sorry I am not switiching to please you Neuro,,,if you like I will start a thread stating that I put her on Nutro to make you "feel better" I think its wrong that you go on and on about me feeding my dog Pedigree,,,I know whats in it I know there are better foods so get off of my damn back for once,,,,,,,,,,,,you feed Cub crap to,,,such as cocktail,,,,,,,,,,,,you feed the guinea pgs Riga but when i say they are bad and people here on POTN told me that you go "oh well" why is it you can feed your animals garbage and I can't?????????????????????????????????


Answer:
Brandy, the Vitakraft & RIGA treats I feed are just that, TREATS. They get them about as often as I get a dessert myself. And I don't think either of those products is that bad, I read the ingredients & didn't like the artificial colour, but when these snacks make up such a tiny portion of a diet, I don't think it is the same as feeding Cub or the pigs a steady diet of Charlie Chinchilla or Living World or Hagen. IMHO!!!
I am glad your chins are getting Mazuri. If you aren't too mad @me, I wouldn't mind getting the dealers name in Sussex, as I am trying to decide between Mazuri & Oxbow for my pets.
What would you do if I had a child & I was feeding them out of people's garbage cans but professing to love him/her to death?? Would that be ok? Because that's the level of food quality you're looking @ when it comes to most pet foods. Love is great, but good nutrition is just as important.


Answer:
Ok, here's what I don't get: someone "loves" their animal, & then gives them food that isn't fit for human consumption??????????
This is from Alternative Health magazine:
The list of ingredients on that bag of dry pet food or can of "meat" can mask the toxic horrors behind innocuous-sounding phrases such as "meat meal," "bone meal," and "meat by-products." It's the substances you don't know about in that can of pet food that may sicken or even kill your pet.
The list of materials that that independant laboritary research has found that go into the rendering process is extensive and horrific. When cattle, sheep and poultry are slaughtered for human consumption, the parts deemed unsuitable for eating—heads (including growth hormone implants in cattle), skin, fat containing pesticide residues, toenails, hair or feathers, joints, hooves, stomach and bowels—are rendered.
Other animal parts sent to rendering plants include cancerous tissues, worm-infested organs, contaminated blood and blood clots. Compounding these toxins, slaughterhouses add carbolic acid and fuel oil to these remnants as a way of marking these foods as unfit for human consumption.
Meat and poultry by-products, another major category of pet food ingredients, are the unrendered parts of the animal left over after slaughter, everything deemed unfit for human consumption. In cattle and sheep, this includes the brain, liver, kidneys, spleen, lungs, blood, bones, fatty tissue, stomachs and intestines. The items on this list that would normally be consumed by humans, such as the liver, would have to be diseased or contaminated before they could be designated for pet food. Poultry by-products include heads, feet, intestines, undeveloped eggs, chicken feathers and egg shells
The primary ingredient in many dry commercial pet foods is not protein but cereal. Corn and wheat are the most common grains used but, as with the meat sources, the nutritious parts of the grain are generally present only in trace amounts. The corn gluten meal or wheat middlings added to pet foods are the leftovers after the grain has been processed for human use, containing little nutritional value.
Or they may be grain that is too moldy for humans to eat, so it's incorporated into pet food.
Mycotoxins, potentially deadly fungal toxins that multiply in moldy grains, have been found in pet foods in recent years. In 1995, Nature's Recipe recalled tons of their dog food after dogs became ill from eating it. The food was found to contain vomitoxin, a mycotoxin.
Harmful chemicals and preservatives are added to both wet and dry food. For example, sodium nitrite, a coloring agent and preservative and potential carcinogen, is a common additive. Other preservatives include ethoxyquin (an insecticide that has been linked to liver cancer) and BHA and BHT, chemicals also suspected of causing cancer. The average dog can consume as much as 26 pounds of preservatives every year from eating commercial dog foods.
Recent studies have shown processed foods to be a factor in increasing numbers of pets suffering from cancer, arthritis, obesity, dental disease and heart disease. Dull or unhealthy coats are a common problem with cats and dogs and poor diet is usually the cause, according to many veterinarians and breeders. The AAFCO nutrient profiles may play a role here, in the "balanced" nutritional levels they recommend may be inadequate for an individual animal.
*If you wouldn't eat it yourself (@ least in theory), why would you feed it to your pets?*
BTW RigaCroc treat cakes are delicious, the guinea pigs & I really enjoyed them the other day.


Answer:
Neuro,
People feed what the feel is BEST for there pet, and there situation, ID rather seen 100 dogs in a loving home being feed Purina (mines been on it 9 years) and doing great than have a 100 dogs die in shelters. YOu complain about not having any money and yet buy the most expensive you can and that FINE for you.
Personally i choose to spend 20 bucks a bag of food verses 40 for a smaller bag and have money for toys/treats/medical bills and the like.
You can feed what you feel is best and we will do the same, you dont have to agree and you know I feed my chins for 3 months or more on what it costs to feed my dogs for a month, all my pets are important I make a decision PER animal what I feed and what I feel meets there requirments. Id rather see someone feeding purina (like I do and brandy does) than dollar store dog food like my parents do, id rather someone pay for purina and give them a loving home than be feed "top of the line" with someone who could care less.


Answer:
exactly Christy......its a feed store in sussex Neuro,,I dont know the name, its been there fror years but i know they dont ship thats why my dad brings it up to me when he visits,,,,,,they order it in for me from Rens feeds in Ontario
I know you mean well Neuro but your like a bad religion who just pushes and pushes until nobody wants to listen anymore....when you first started going on about ingredients I seriously considered switiching, we looked into prices and what not but then you kept at it and at it and now I feel like you try and pressure people and I dont even want to listen or read about ingredients anymore.......I'm so sick of it


Answer:
I am one of those people who feed dogs animals 'crap'. It is not the cost, I would glady pay $100 a bag if my dogs actually LIKED (ate) it.
There is no physical problems with my dogs. My 'pup' Spencer (age 4) is perfectly healthy, has a beautiful coat, clean teeth and never goes to the vet except to get his shots. My older dog Sneekers (who is now 11) has been eating 'horrible' her entire life. She needs aspirin now. Not because of her diet, but simply because she has had two broken legs during her lifetime.
I think the argument of pets only eating food humans would eat absolutely ridiculous. Of course animals have different dietary needs than humans.
Do you know the argument that a glass of wine a day is actually healthy for humans... well, that is because our bodies have adjusted over time to eating 'bad' (literally) food. People used to eat fermented fruit. This is where the 'alchohol' comes into play. With our current diets of only eating 'fresh' fruit our bodies no longer get the alcohol they adjusted to, and therefore we have the ability to enjoy a glass of wine with our dinners. Anyway, all of this to say that over the thousands of years dogs may have adjusted to eat what we would consider 'bad' (like fermented fruit for humans). By cutting out the 'scraps' that dogs have always eaten we could in fact be harming them, maybe their bodies 'need' it now. Just something to think about.
All of this to say that I will consider to feed my dogs what they like. As long as I see no drastic decrease in their health or energy levels they will continue to eat Purina. Taboo will continue to eat Mazuri. Vivaldi will continue to eat Martins.
Oh, I almost forgot. My cat (Kitty) is 20 years old. She has 'always' been fed Whiskas. She has NEVER been to the vet (except to be spayed), NEVER been sick, is still beautiful, has the energy level of a kitten and seems to be no where near her end.
I will not feed my pets what other people say is best, I have the results sitting here with me of the merits of their current diets.


Answer:
I currently do not have a dog (yet) but when the time comes and we do have one (hopefully two), I will be feeding them Nutro. If, for some reason, the dog(s) do not like Nutro, then I will have to find the next best choice in dog food. I am one of those people that feel it is important to feed their pets the best food possible. My husband spends a fortune on fish food to give you an idea of how important it is for us. He doesn't feed flake food that is found in pet stores but rather supreme frozen food that costs roughly $50 for three medium sized "blocks" It does last awhile because we don't overfeed them so it is money well spent.
For me, I feel good knowing my animals have the best diet possible and the food they are eating are of the highest quality ingredients. I try and eat healthy most of the time so why shouldn't my pets? If I had to buy a lower quality food for my animals than I know either I have too many or I have to cut corners somewhere else in my budget.
I was feeding the Kline pellet which is a great pellet and has been around for a very long time but I preferred to switch to a pellet that has no preservatives added to it. I honestly don't see a big difference in cost considering the quality of the food.
When my father was little he had many dogs and they were all fed Mighty Dog. They all thrived on it and lived to be a good age without health problems. Now, let's not forget quality of meat back then is not what it is now. I think quality back then was more superior considering animals were not fed antibiotics and cheap food. That could have something to do with the fact his animals were not of poor health and had long lives. Let's also not forget that genetics also plays a big part in this. Perhaps an animal could be fed lower quality food without having side affects from it because genetically they are stronger.
It appears Brandy's dog and Rincewind's dog are doing just fine on the diets they are providing for their pets. I don't view people as "bad" because they choose to feed their pets what is considered lower quality food. When it comes down to it, every person is responsible for their own pets. What they do when it comes to how they take care of them is ultimately their own decision. It is fine to offer information and explain the differences between different foods but you certainly can not force someone to change their minds.


Answer:
Rincewind that makes so much sense.....and for all of you who know,,,,,If sasha was to ever get diarhea or start getting over weight or she wasnt active and healthy i would pay the extra in a heart beat............I can give you at least 5 people right now who have tried their dogs on Nutro and Nutrience and they will not eat it,,,Petkeepers mom for one bought some Nutro and everyone told her when the dog gets hungry she'll eat it,,she lost a lot of weight and started getting weak and still wouldnt touch it
my mom bought her dog from a pet store who was fed Nutro,,Maggie was so thin and she had diarhea when she got her home,,,,,,Jake my moms other dog was eating kibbles and Bits and she was considering putting jake on Nutro because of the pet store saying how good of a food it was well Jake sniffed it once and walked away from it,,,,,Maggie refused to eat it and thats why she was so skinny and unhealthy,,,,,,mom finally gave in after 2 days and gave maggie some of Jakes food and she went crazy and pigged out because she was so hungry ,,she ended up throwing up because her system wasnt used to food anymore,,,,,so why feed my dog something that she hates,,,she hates the taste of and makes her miserable just to keep her "healthy" when I can feed her something she enjoys to eat and her still be healthy and yet happy because she actually likes her food,,,,,
Just because my dog eats Pedigree does not mean she is not healthy ,,,Neuro you even stated your guinea pigs are of perfect health and they have picture perfect poos altho they could have eaten hagen food for their whole lives ,,,,just becuase my dog prefers "garbage" over the "best" does not make her unhealthy and Sasha is the happiest dog I have ever seen and if that makes me an irresponsible dog owner than so be it,,,,,


Answer:
There are other dog foods out there than Nutro though.
If the dog doesn't like Nutro, try something different.
It might be more expensive to buy a bag of Innova, Solid Gold, California Natural...but it is cheaper overall to feed.
My German Shepherds get at least HALF or ONE-THIRD of the food a day on California Natural than they would on Pedigree or something.
Zoe gets two cups of food a day, on Science Diet she was getting 6. It is a LOT cheaper for me to feed California Natural. "It costs an average of 24 cents a day to feed a dog a Super-Premium brand, compared to 26 cents a day for a Premium brand, and 31 cents a day for an Econo brand." http://www.gooddogmagazine.com/dogfoodcosts.htm
The reason why your dog is turning her nose to the better foods is because the cheaper foods are full of corn (bad bad bad for dogs) and corn is sweet.
The dogs find pedigree and others as a treat because of the taste. The better foods have little to no corn in them *yay*, but in turn they are not as "tasty" to some dogs.
The food is much meatier and has a meatier taste instead and most dogs aren't used to it.
Try wetting the food with some warm water or nuking it in a bit of water for a few seconds. The water will release the good smells and make it irresistible.
I don't care what people feed their dogs, its their choice. But I studied canine nutrition for a long time. Both on my own time and in vet tech school. Its your dog and you can do what you want to them and feed what you will.
I know you have seen them a hundred times before:
http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=home-tab
http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=stores-tab
http://www.healthfood4pets.net/
http://www.pets-diet.com/pet-food/premium-pet-food.htm
http://www.canidae.com/
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/asp/i...ator.asp?Flg=1