Question:
Well, I'm officially sick and tired of being in this condo; and I am working on moving to a different location, preferably away from the irresponsible and frankly, rude people who live here. I know the Board is only responding to complaints received from residents, but they are pissing me off beyond all belief.

Here's the story, omitting any un-necessary stuff.
I have a 1.5 yr old Maltese X dog and have been living in my condo (which I own) since September 2004. In, February, I think it was, I received a letter from my condo board telling me that the by-laws state that I can't allow my dog to go to the bathroom outside as it damages the grass. I have a concrete patio with gravel beside it, so I bought one of those exercise pens, opened it up and placed it so that now he can only pee/poo on the gravel or concrete. I also purchased a grass-repair kit, and as soon as it warmed up, I put it out. The grass has almost completely grown back.
During the month of June it rained nearly everyday here--and we're not talking about a little spit, like a downpour all day everyday. My dog had diarrhea most of the month (not sure why), and so most of the poop that he dropped outside just washed between the rocks anyhow, so I didn't pick much up. I received a letter dated June 28 saying that someone complained that I didn't pick up my dog poop, that I allowed him to damage the grass, AND that I left bags of "dog excrement" on my front porch. Granted that all of this is total lies, but whatever, obviously someone doesn't like my dog. So fine.. I'm trying to pick up the poop every time he goes or at least every day, but I just had surgery on my knee and this isn't easy. (Note that I think it's quite funny that I was able to simultaneously NOT pick up the poop AND leave bags of it on my front step).

I was just reading the "fine print" on this letter, and they're saying that next time it happens they're going to fine me $100 for each violation OR remove my pet from my property. They can try to get the money out of me, but what I'm wondering is, is it even LEGAL for them to suggest that they'll take my dog away? How can they?? He's not being abused or neglected, he's not living in his own filth (he's inside all day!), and by the technical definition of the law right now, he is my "property" and if they were to take him, that'd be stealing, wouldn't it?
Does anyone have any resources that I can quote back to them that shows that I have the right to keep my dog unless he's being abused? That he is, by law, my property?

Any suggestions on what else I can do to make my neighbours shut up and not screw up my knee in the process? I try to take him for walks in the evenings, but he often poops in the morning out back, and with my knee mangled up, it's really really difficult to pick up everyday. Plus, I apparently can't leave a bag of poop outside until it's full, so I guess I have to figure out a better way of disposing of daily poo that's not a waste of my time, energy or plastic bag collection.

Thanks very much,
Melissa in Airdrie, Alberta

Answer:
Wow that really sucks. I don't know how to help, but I don't think they can remove your dog. If you play a tv too loud can they take that? Unfortunately, dogs are still personal property, so I would assume that they are treated as such.

We thought about getting a condo but the thought of having neighbors when you own the place irked me... I hope you can get out of there...

Answer:
Prin,
It really bugs me to have neighbours attached to me, no yard of my own and have to pay for things that I'd rather do myself (like mow the grass--which there isn't even any in the front anyways), but the condo was all I could afford when I bought, and having 3 cats and a dog makes it EXTREMELY difficult to find anything to rent in this city, and next to impossible for a person like me to finance on my own.
Unfortunately, I expect that when I move, I'll still end up with neighbours attached, but hopefully I can find a place without a condo board or one who isn't quite so rude about things. I think they're mostly ticked off because this is a new development.

Thanks for your thoughts though; my opinion is the same--and my neighbour DOES play their TV too loud, so I guess I should just be able to go over there and take it from them. Wouldn't that be nice?

Melissa

Answer:
Perhaps you might consider moving to a home? I considered a condo but even without the animal issue, there are way too many rules in most condos for my liking. I think it takes a certain kind of person to live in a condo and I know I am not it - even tho I actually enjoy politics, there is too much petty politics in condo developments.

My understanding about them - and I could be wrong but this is just what I learned when I looked into getting one near my parents' home in Florida - as a vacation home - is that you have to abide by the rules that are set by the condo board. So while I doubt they can actually come and take your dog, they could accuse you of breaking the rules and then just give you a hard time, which they seem to bw already doing.

I know in Fla many places only allow so many visitors and the visitors can only stay for a set period of time. It's prob like that here too - I just never checked since I already have a home and have no desire to move to a condo!!!

If I were you, I would look at moving to less restrictive housing - and no matter the condo, you never know when some board will change and they will elect anti animal people, sighhhh!

Good luck!!

Answer:
What about getting one of those long-handled dust pans and something of equal length to scoop the poop into the pan and then empty it into a bag, all without kneeling (might be a bit difficult when the dog has the runs, however). You could also buy a small trash can with a lid and keep it on your porch (if your wretched condo board allows it), put in a bin liner and don't empty it until it's full.

I had a spot of trouble with my neighbour recently, who objected to my cats passing his door on their way to the yard. Terrible feeling to be harrassed in your own house for no good reason. In general, people like this have no life and entertain themselves ruining yours.

Not sure if they can force you to give up the dog, depends on the fine print. When you move, though, don't forget to leave the last, full poop bucket on your neighbour's porch...

Answer:
I lived in a condo for 3 years and my father was on the board. The way it works is they CANNOT remove ANYTHING from your property unless it involves the cops or fire department (somthing hazardous). They CANNOT remove your dog. However, they can fine you through the roof! Those fines will be added directly to your maintenence payments and/or mortgage if you don't pay them.

You should call a board meeting and speak to them about this issue. You OWN your condo, you do not rent and you don't own a share such as a Co-Op. They have to listen to you and take your issues into consideration... it's your right for them to listen and work with you.

Answer:
I don't believe they can legally come in and take your dog away from you. That, to me, is ridiculous. They can however take you to court and they can try to change the condo rules.

Condos can change the rules if the majority of the board agrees. For example, they allow dogs at first but then they decide that the dogs are causing too much trouble or there are just way to many complaints from nondog owner residences. So they opt to change the rules to no dogs. There was a case like this here in Ontario. They wanted this one person in particular to "get rid" of her dogs. She had been living in this condo (she owned her unit) and it had allowed pets (when she bought it). She took them to court and fought it, now all animals currently living in the building get to stay. Only new tenants/purchasers are not allowed to bring any pets.

My husband owned a condo. We hated all the rules. They didn't allow dogs, but they did allow cats and birds. We ended up selling the place and buying a house. Now the only rules are our rules!

The board cannot remove your dog, but they can take you to court and have you pay many fines, as was previously said.

I like the idea of the scooper. This way you don't have to bend down, making it so much easier for you.

Answer:
Originally Posted by badger
What about getting one of those long-handled dust pans and something of equal length to scoop the poop into the pan and then empty it into a bag, all without kneeling (might be a bit difficult when the dog has the runs, however). You could also buy a small trash can with a lid and keep it on your porch (if your wretched condo board allows it), put in a bin liner and don't empty it until it's full.
Not sure if they can force you to give up the dog, depends on the fine print. When you move, though, don't forget to leave the last, full poop bucket on your neighbour's porch...

Badger,
The pan & scoop is a great idea, but yes, very difficult when doggie has the runs. In those situations, I end up just getting a bucket and washing the poop away, but I guess doing that every other day isn't good enough for my neighbours.
I highly doubt that my condo board would allow a garbage can, but perhaps I can find a way to hide one under the steps at the back and still have access to it with my sore knee.
Unfortunately, I don't know for sure which neighbour is the one reporting me, but I have a good idea, and what irks me the most is that they don't come and talk to me about it. They see me everyday and never say a word!! If they TOLD me that the dog poop was bothering them, then I could work with them to find a solution. But nooooooo, they just report me. So I guess what it comes down to is that instead of people wanting good neighbourly relations, and have all parties happy, they'd rather I get fined over and over.
Anyways... I guess I'd better get outside, the dog just went out and I have to clean it up.

Thanks,
Melissa

Answer:
Just a thought here, but is there a reliable young teen you could hire to do the poop & scoop thing once or twice a day. You could pay them by cheque on a weekly basis and forward copies to your Condo board along with a statement from them as proof it's being cleaned daily. It may help until your knee recovers too!

Also, I see it's a small dog you have, so could the poop be pick up with toilet paper and flushed rather than bagged? (My mom does this, but don't use paper towel...I couldn't do that with my Shepherd and Mal without backing up the whole system)

Answer:
Originally Posted by shannon1233
Just a thought here, but is there a reliable young teen you could hire to do the poop & scoop thing once or twice a day. You could pay them by cheque on a weekly basis and forward copies to your Condo board along with a statement from them as proof it's being cleaned daily. It may help until your knee recovers too!
Also, I see it's a small dog you have, so could the poop be pick up with toilet paper and flushed rather than bagged? (My mom does this, but don't use paper towel...I couldn't do that with my Shepherd and Mal without backing up the whole system)

Shannon,
I like the idea of having someone pick up the poop for me, but I honestly don't think it would make a difference. Apparently someone around here is cranky that the poop isn't picked up the second it comes out of the dog, so even if *I* picked it up once a day, I doubt that would make a difference. I've tried that, and the very few times I haven't done it daily, then I get this letter.
I suppose I could flush the poop rather than bag it, but as I pay for water, and hate the idea of flushing the toilet when not needed, I'm not sure if this is really a solution. I will consider it, though, when the poops are actually of the consistency to pick up with toilet paper and not cover my hands with poop.

Thanks,
Melissa

Answer:
Melissa,my son owned a condo and he has a Jack Russel,he had all kinds of trouble with neighbors,because Kita barked during the day,but nobody ever threatened to take the dog away.
If dogs were allowed when you bought the condo,they cannot legally make you get rid of him,so do not worry..
My son regretted every day that he bought the condo,maintenance fees went up by $300,for 4 months,because of repairs done money he could not afford.
As for Kitas barking,he ended up coming home taking her outside every lunch,which he should have done from the beginning and the barking stopped.
He just a couple of months ago sold his condo and bought a little 2-bedroom house for the same amount and everybody is happy!

Answer:
Hate to say it, but tell any real estate lawyer that you and your dog have moved to a condo and he/she will probably ask if you still have your dog. There are many people in my area who have opted to buy a small bungalow in East York rather than a condo for exactly this reason. Funny how the condo board members always seem to have "perfect" pets. I don't think they can legally remove your dog from your premises, but I expect they do schedule inside maintenance from time to time - I would make sure I boarded my dog that day - and not in a crate at home - the vet's - somewhere. You should read the fine print in your agreements - most likely at the back - I expect it will say that they can force you to sell your condo and move. There was a case in Toronto where the maximum weight of a dog was 25 lbs. One dog - a real couch potato - quiet even - gained 5 lbs. so the owners were told he had to go. This is a true story, seriously. So the people took the condo board to court and LOST! So they sold and moved to a house. Gee, hate to think what would have happened had a person gained a couple of pounds. But get out those documents and start reading. You may find yourself in a no-win situation, even when 100% innocent.

Answer:
Wow... in NY they cannot do in-house maintence checks at all! That stinks... I think NYC is much more dog friendly than most places.

Answer:
I know of one condo in Toronto where the board stipulates the type of flowers you may have on your balcony in the summer - not only the type - but that you will have flowers - and that they will be of a certain shade etc. If the condo owner does not abide by the "rules" the "flower committee" takes charge of said person's balcony and charges a fee. Boy would I be in trouble seeing as I can't keep a silk plant alive. The sad thing is is that the board is a clique of people - friends of course - all who love gardening - with absolutely no business knowledge and in fact should not be managing the condo. Of course this is why so many condos get into financial difficulty.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Angeleyes1437
Wow... in NY they cannot do in-house maintence checks at all! That stinks... I think NYC is much more dog friendly than most places.

My husband's old condo did yearly maintenance on the HVAC systems in the individual units. Basically they send you a letter stating the days that they will be doing the maintenance and that's it. They are allowed in to do whatever work that needs to be done.

SnowDancer brought up a good point. What do people in condos do with their pets when the maintenance people are scheduled to arrive? My husband used to be at work during the time of these scheduled maintenance visits, I can only imagine what would happen if he had a dog or cat and they allowed them out accidently.

The condo board can change the rules of the original agreement. There is usually a vote on it by the members. They cannot force you to give up your dog if the original agreement allowed you to have pets when you bought the condo (as long as there were no weight/height or breed restrictions). But, they can make your life miserable and fine, even take you to court if they feel your dog is being destructive.

Answer:
I had no idea these boards could be so powerful!!! No wonder my condo neighbours are in such grumpy moods all the time! I did here of one condo that would only allow dogs on lower floors, but that was all said and done upfront. Im still sure they cant remove your dog though But it sounds from these posts like they can remove you! Good luck with it all!

Answer:
Thank you to all who posted, and apologies for my delay in responding.

I did read, in advance, all the legislation in the condo bylaws. No where in there does it say that the condo board has the power ro remove offending property that there is complaints about--whether that property is a dog, a shelving unit outside, a TV, a vehicle, or anything else. They can fine me until I'm broke, but they can't take the item that I own. I highly doubt that the current Condo board would vote to change the legislation to allow them to do this, because in every definition, it is against the law for them to remove items that don't belong to them, as this would be classified as stealing, even if it is an animal (they are still defined as property under current Canadian Law).

A few months ago I took a job which requires me to drive almost 100 km everyday (return trip) and involves mostly highway driving. I had already decided that I would ty to find something closer to work, and this stuff with the dog & condo board has just lit a fire under me. I am going to look at 5 different properties on Friday, most of which aren't classified as a "condo" even though they're in a multi-family complex. So with those ones, there will be no board threatening me and I can clean up dog poop when I feel like it and not worry about being fined. Unfortunately in Calgary, on my income, I can't afford a "house", so I have to buy a townhouse or duplex, and may still be subject to condo regulations. I'm trying to find one that is going to be easiest to get along with.

Thank you all for your thoughts and support and I'll let you know how it all turns out.
Melissa

Answer:
Originally Posted by Beaglemom
SnowDancer brought up a good point. What do people in condos do with their pets when the maintenance people are scheduled to arrive? My husband used to be at work during the time of these scheduled maintenance visits, I can only imagine what would happen if he had a dog or cat and they allowed them out accidently.

Beaglemom,

I'm not sure what *other* people do, but I'm in a townhouse-type unit, so when people come to do maintenance (or fix things), I simply put the cats in the basement and close the door. The dog is kenneled during the day next to my bed, and I know that people in the house bother him, but I leave him in there anyways. I think it's likely less stressful on him than to take him to a boarding facility for one day (he has separation anxiety). The other option for me is to take the dog to my boyfriend's mom's house; he's stayed there during the day a few times and it's ok. If they need to do anything in the basement, though, I can choose to either leave the cats loose in the rest of the house (litter boxes in the basement), or I can bring up a box or two and lock them in a bedroom. The maintenance people are aware that there are cats inside and are always careful NOT to let them out of the house--and my cats are too scared of both strangers and outside to even make a break for it, so it works out quite well.

Anyhow...
Melissa

Answer:
Melissa, Until you have been able to change your living arrangements, please check your condo regulations again. They can't walk in and take your dog, but in many cases they can force you to either sell and move or give up your dog. Giving up your dog is obviously not an option. All it takes is enough board members - with barky dogs - to gang up on you. It happens all the time. When looking for new accommodation, please check this out very carefully. I reviewed the condo documents for a friend and found the nasty little bit of info near the end in the fine print - I am notorious for being able to do this - unless of course it is for my own benefit and then I am toast. If you can find an older building with thicker walls it would help and generally the older buildings are considerably larger with more experienced board management.

Answer:
Me again. If maintenance was scheduled for my condo, I would make sure I boarded the dog with a day boarder or my vet. A crate is find as long as you can be 100% certain that the maintenance worker will not open the crate and then say the door was not closed properly and the dog attacked him - even though there probably won't be any scratches because your dog won't attack him, or if he did, it would be "encouraged". Many people get their dogs out of the house when work is being done if they can't be home for this very reason - we live in a very litigious society. Also, since you are already experiencing difficulties with the board, I would take every precaution.

Answer:
Melissa...apartment buildings of any sort simply SUCK..there is no other word for it...I feel your pain as I also live in an apartment building and I own a pitbull in the middle of a BSL passing...so you can only imagine what I have to go through on a daily basis..

People can get really stupid about really stupid things..especially those that are unemployed or too old to do anything but sit around and complain about the grass...again, I also feel your pain...there are animals being abused and neglected as we speak, but here WE are getting letters about how the grass isn't growing properly because my dog took a leak...

I don't know about where you live, but we have a thing called "tenant protection act" around here..and I'm not sure how it works in your condo, but maybe you can take these guys to a tribunal court for harassment..if you have enough proof and evidence that you are really trying hard to comply to all the rules, and show that you even repaired the grass..etc..etc.. it might be in your favor to contact a lawyer...because I had the same situation here..people baring false witness against me, and then ME receiving letters of inviction notices....and it IS harassment..

find out more about it and less us know what happens..good luck and I'm sorry you have to go through all this junk :(

Answer:
Myself, if they have in writing that they will be removing the dog, I'd be changing my locks and if they call you on it, I'd first ask how do they know, they can't enter your property without prior notice, so that's an attempted break in, and secondly, that you have in writing that they were threatening to illegally enter your property and you did it for protection of your home. I'm pretty sure the law is the same as apartments which states they must give 24 hour notice before entering the property.

Answer:
Melissa, my husband's condo was a low rise building, but apartment style. We always got notices that cats had gone missing from units. They usually escaped and were wandering the halls.

As for someone coming in and removing your dog, that is illegal. That is equivalent to stealing. A pet is considered your property, it cannot be removed without your permission. What Schwinn said is true, whether you own or rent your unit, you must be given at least 24 hours written notice before anyone enters your premises. Although, I'm not sure if you can legally change your locks. I know that at my husband's condo, that was not allowed unless you gave security a copy of your key. They needed it for access in an emergency. Good luck and please do keep us updated.

Answer:
Multi-part response

1. No worries about them removing my dog. It's idle threats. The bylaws clearly state that no dogs over 10kg are allowed in the community, and there is a yellow lab living across the road from me; who barks like crazy everytime I walk by with my 2.5 lb Maltese (when that dog is tied up outside as he used to be 24/7 for about 3 weeks). And that dog is still there. So they can threaten all they want, but clearly they have no desire to actually DO anything about it. I did send an email to the management company for the condo board; the one that actually issues these letters, telling them that I am doing my best to pick up the poop, but since I just had knee surgery it's not always easy for me, plus I physically can't walk him off my property everytime he needs to go, because I just can't go that far yet, so I'd appreciate a little understanding. I also told them that I don't appreciate the threats to remove my property, as that would be considered stealing and could be subject to criminal charges. I also mentioned AGAIN, about the cat that runs loose in the complex, and the diseases that can be picked up from a cat pooping in the dirt that the children are forced to play in (no grass put in yet), and how they haven't done anything about that.

2. As for reading the fine print, I am doing my best to find a place that doesn't have condo fees (or a condo board), but I did find a place that I absolutely loves and they say "pets with permission of the board". The place has a fully-fenced backyard, and the people have taken out all the grass and put down patio stones, so there wouldn't even be any damage if the dog peed in the back! I'm putting in an offer on that place this week, but until I actually know that the offer is accepted, I can't get full access to the condo bylaws. Such is life, I suppose, when I can't afford to buy a full-fledged house. I saw a few condos that didn't have fees on the weekend and it was obvious what happened in those situations; the places were a WRECK!

3. Maintenance: As I don't live in an apartment, I have to give a key to the people in charge ONLY when they are scheduled to do maintenance. The advantage that I have is that if they don't tell me that they want to come fix something (which I have to request), then they just can't get in, because I haven't given them a key. Plus since my dog was abused originally, he is *very* afraid of strangers. He barks, but if anyone was to open the kennel that he's in, he either wouldn't come out, or if he did, he'd run away. And good luck catching a small dog who's scared of you. He was kicked in the head, so he doesn't get close enough to be grabbed or kicked, so no maintenance person would be able to hurt him, and he'd never hurt them, he's far too scared.

So I think that's about all I have for today. I am moving, which I was going to do regardless of the board, but in the meantime, I'm doing my best to not cause any trouble.
Will keep you all informed anyhow.
And good luck to anyone else going through the same thing.

Melissa

Answer:
Id hire someone.I know you are injured but not picking up poop will get you booted from any apt or condo or townhouse.If you owned a house your neighbours would nail you too.Its a must regardless of circumstance.

Answer:
Aw, Melissa, this whole thing stinks for you! My parents have just bought a condo in our town, and I was just reading over their sale contract, and am still wiping tears of laughter from my eyes:

And I quote:

"Any dogs visiting the property (no dogs allowed by owners) MUST be carried whilst on the property"....Now, for your morning smile, we own a 160 lb lab/mastiff mix, and a 40 lb mastiff/rottie pup! Can you just get the visual of me trying to carry two dogs and a two year old child when I visit my parents???? LMAO!!!! The dogs will be staying at home, needless to say.

We shied away from condos simply because if I'm paying 250 000 for something, I'm going to bloody well paint my front door pink if I want to...

Do you have a camera? Can you take pictures of the yellow lab across the street? Every dealing you have with the board from hereonin should be documented for your records, then if you must consult a lawyer, you have EVERYTHING in writing. It's ugly, but it's for your protection.

PS Are you seriously supposed to keep the dog poo in the house until garbage day? Ewwwwwww

Answer:
I havent read the thread thoroughly so I apologise if someone alraedy said this, but another idea is to get freindly with any other dog owners in the building and see if they can (a) help or (b) have had similiar problems. 2 voices are better than one and 4 better than 2. especially when it comes to Condo boards.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Bearsmom
Aw, Melissa, this whole thing stinks for you! My parents have just bought a condo in our town, and I was just reading over their sale contract, and am still wiping tears of laughter from my eyes:
We shied away from condos simply because if I'm paying 250 000 for something, I'm going to bloody well paint my front door pink if I want to...
Do you have a camera? Can you take pictures of the yellow lab across the street? Every dealing you have with the board from hereonin should be documented for your records, then if you must consult a lawyer, you have EVERYTHING in writing. It's ugly, but it's for your protection.
PS Are you seriously supposed to keep the dog poo in the house until garbage day? Ewwwwwww

Yes, it stinks, literally. :P
The condo that your parents own is ridiculous, and I'd like to see them enforce that. At least here they allow small dogs, and there is basically no restrictions on visiting animals (or people). I don't think they'd appreciate it if a large dog came to visit and pooped and the owners or condo owner didn't pick it up, but whatever.
I agree about rather having a house, but as I can't afford even the smallest of houses in Calgary, I have to buy a condo at least one more time.
I have taken pictures of the yellow lab across the street, and sent them to the Condo Board. Now they keep the dog inside their house, which I guess is better, overall, but it still makes me mad that they get ticked off at me, but allow this dog to be there. The people who own the dog didn't have the dog when they moved in. It just showed up this Spring and they've been there since early January.
As for keeping the dog poop inside... no, they don't expect me to do that. They just expect me to pick it up as soon as it's pinched off and then take it directly to the large garbage bins at the ends of the complex. Unless I want to keep it inside, I suppose that'd be my choice. I've heard of people using diaper pails and such, but that's just as much work IMO as taking it right away, so I guess I just have to suck it up and deal with it.
Guess that's all for today. I just found out how much my realtor wants for fees, and I'm choking on that at the moment. Dog poop is the least of my concerns right now.
Later,
Melissa

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