Question:
You all know Ebony, our sweet little 7 month old min. schnauzer. This morning she snapped at my son (3yrs), more than snapped though, the growling and snarling went on longer. She left 6 little puncture marks on his arm, three of them broke the skin. He tells me that he was sitting on the couch and she wanted his bread crusts, and he pushed her with his feet to get her down. He always plays with her, and sometimes he pulls her fur or puts all his weight on her, and she will warn him and snarl at him. I have repeatedly told him how to and how not to play with her, but this 3 year old wants to learn the hard way it seems.

But todays bites concern me, as this time she broke the skin. Next time will it be worse? My son comes first. What can I do to protect my son, and also teach Ebony this is not allowed. I find it hard to punish her when she was only protecting herself. But I think we are raising a puppy that is becoming more nippy and biting for lesser reasons.

Answer:
Please don't take offense to this but there are several things wrong with your story...

Those wounds are too far apart to be just one bite.

Why is a 3 year old left alone unattended with food sitting on a couch. Shouldn't he be eating at the table out of reach of the dog?

Whether your 3 year old wishes to learn how to properly touch or treat a dog.. is irrelevant.. you have a young dog, you have a young child... the young child needs repurcussions for his actions as much as the dog does. However, if the child harms the dog.. it's pretty hard to discipline the dog for defending itself.

You have chosen a breed that is really not recommended around small children from rescues experience.

I would suggest working with a trainer and working with your child in a time out situation for not handling the dog correctly. He's three so you need to set the boundaries, he can't set him himself nor can a 7 month old pup.

Answer:
I'm so sorry your baby was hurt.:(

He always plays with her, and sometimes he pulls her fur or puts all his weight on her, and she will warn him and snarl at him. I have repeatedly told him how to and how not to play with her, but this 3 year old wants to learn the hard way it seems.
You MUST stop this. If you don't, "Learning the hard way" could end up with your child being scarred for life and what 3 yr olds want to do is not always what's best.

You can't expect the dog to not react at this (unintentional) abuse. It could get a lot worse, since your dog knows that you won't protect her so she must defend herself. Schnauzers are not submissive dogs, and won't tolerate this treatment.

3 years old is old enough to understand simple explanations of why he should not hurt animals, such as "Would you like it if someone pulled YOUR hair?"

I strongly suggest you prevent dog and child from being hurt, and keep Ebony off the furniture permanently.

Answer:
gosh....sucky situation here I suppose.
Puppy vs. Little boy. Whose side to take?

i'm not trying to be rude so please don't take this the wrong way but kids are kids...are you SURE he wasn't hurting her?? well without knowing and intending to.
Little kids are tricky just as puppies are. I guess figuring out who was at fault will help you see who to have a talk with...or train more hehe
also...little kid's skin is so sensitive any bite could probably damage it. So don't freak out just yet. I doubt she had any strength, but can't you take her to training or obedience so that this doesn't happen again?


good luck

Answer:
I really like this article and send it to all potential adopters who have kids.
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/kidsdog2.html

Answer:
I don't get how the dog bit his arms if he was kicking the dog away. But I agree with all of the above. Dogs and kids who don't know how to behave around dogs don't do well alone. Hopefully this incident won't cause your son to be even more aggressive with Ebony.

And to me 6 marks means at least 3 bites...

Answer:
gosh what a sucky situation... let's just put it this way. what if the dog had been a bigger breed (say lab, or rottie, or bernese...) and put in the same situation... the defensive bites would have caused a LOT more damage... the dog would be rehomed, or put down, and your baby would have permanent scarring and potential nerve damage... maybe it wouldn't have been his arm that got bitten... starting to sound like a bad situation eh?

you're lucky, in a way, to have had a "2nd chance" to learn... NEVER leave a small child unattended with a dog, no matter the dog... you are the parent and are responsible for the welfare of both. this is an excellent occasion to train the puppy, and to train your child to respect animals - it might well save his life someday.

good luck!

Answer:
Originally Posted by rivers
You all know Ebony, our sweet little 7 month old min. schnauzer. This morning she snapped at my son (3yrs), more than snapped though, the growling and snarling went on longer. She left 6 little puncture marks on his arm, three of them broke the skin. He tells me that he was sitting on the couch and she wanted his bread crusts, and he pushed her with his feet to get her down. He always plays with her, and sometimes he pulls her fur or puts all his weight on her, and she will warn him and snarl at him. I have repeatedly told him how to and how not to play with her, but this 3 year old wants to learn the hard way it seems.
But I think we are raising a puppy that is becoming more nippy and biting for lesser reasons.

Being attacked by a 3 year old repeatedly (think of it from HER height and world perspective) is not a lesser reason. She's defending herself and I agree, this was more than just one bite, it was many, which means your son kept going after her. Allowing "this 3 year old wants to learn the hard way" behaviour and attitude puts Ebony at risk, and if you're not in the room to police him, then she will, meaning he's at risk. I know being a parent is hard, so much so that you wish you had many sets of eyes and superhuman hearing, but if your child is not capable of being gentle, then it's up to you to train him before he hurts her further and she gets more defensive (and rightly so)

Answer:
I do not have a dog,but this incident to me is a typical 3yr old child-7month old puppy happening.
In no way do I think your pup is aggresive,you do not really know what transpired between the two.
I am sorry your little boy was hurt and I hope this does not make your son,fearful or more careless with the pup.
Children HAVE to learn that pups/kittens hurt just like they do and often the pups will pay the ulimate price,because he reacted to pain..he is after all just a baby.

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and she will warn him and snarl at him
Parents need to heed warning signs..she gave you many it sounds like..

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I'm sorry to hear that this happened to your son. I hope things turn out OK for both of them.

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I agree with Chico2...they are both babies and should not be left together unattended. Do hope everything works out.

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Kids do not always display common sense. When I was living with my parents, my niece and nephews came over to stay at grandma's for two weeks. The two older kids were terrified of my perfectly friendly, people-loving dog, but repeatedly had to be warned to stay away from our hissing, stranger-hating cat. Except the youngest nephew, who loved the dog . . . and kept trying to do things like RIDE her (we told him, no, that's bad for her back) and pick her up by the HEAD. (Not that he managed to because she was a 40 lb dog nearly as tall as he was, but he got told off good for that one!)

So basically I would hang around keeping an eye on the kids whenever they were near Ebony. (My dog was also an Ebony. ) That's what you're going to have to do, too. Never let the puppy and the child be around each other when you aren't there. And if your son starts acting inappropriately, you must remove him from the situation and correct him in whatever way is most effective. His behavior MUST change and YOU must initiate the change. Remember, you are the pack leader. Your dog needs to see that you're protecting her so that she doesn't feel the need to take control of the situation herself . . . with her teeth.

~LM~

Answer:
Thanks for the replies. I am keeping a closer watch on the two of them.

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I am sorry rivers about what happened, but if this was any other breed ( large breed ) garunteed other things would have been done. I do not think this should be swept under a rug, and nothing done about it, except closer eye. That should have been from the get go.
If you want to keep this dog from attacking your son, where morte damage can be done, I highly suggest you place you and your son above her in pack order. She needs to be put into what you call a NILF program, and OB school.
I would never trust her again around your son. And your son needs to be disaplined when he does something wrong to the dog.
They both need to learn respect.
I have a 18 month old rottweiler who I trust my life with, with my daughter. BUT NEVER would I ever leve them together. even 2 seconds.
I just hope something is done about this quick, because if she really did bite your son, and not just puppy play with lack of bite inhabition. You are in for a heck of a bumpy road.
GET HELP, if you want her to live with rules and respect

Answer:
I agree with the others, they should only be allowed to be together when supervised, to protect both of them. I remember being a child and pushing the bounderies of my cat's personal space. There were times I had scratches all up and down my arms. I was pushing it too far and stubborn about it. I was actually a lot older than 3. I really don't think kids, even teenagers, should be left alone with dogs unsupervised, never mind 3 yr olds.

Answer:
The dog gave plenty of warning signs and you must listen to her she is only protecting herself because nobody else is. Kids must never be left alone with any animal. Both can't be trusted alone.

Answer:
I'm gonna share my story with you... I'll boil down the basics to keep it as short as possible..... here goes...

New boyfriend on the scene, with a 3 yr old son, who LOVES Dillinger (1.5 yr old intact Doberman male), dog loves little boy back a great deal....

Dillinger is not aggressive, he plays awesome with this boy, They are buddies, little boy gives and takes toys from Dillinger and the dog is more then agreeable to this type of play....
Here's the story...

A couple weeks ago, my teenage daughter gave Dillinger a rawhide bone to chew on (but, neglected to tell new boyfriend about this, I was not home at the time)
Dillinger was laying around chewing on this wonderful treat (he rarely gets these things)
Little boy goes up to the dog and attempts to take the bone. Dillinger snapped and bit his arm. It did break skin and bruise.
So... The dog can not be blamed for protecting his special treat...
LIttle boy can not be blamed for thinking he could take it from the dog like he does with toys...
Dad was not in the room when it happened, but, teenaged daughter was. Dad was not aware of the dog having the treat or he would have made sure little boy stayed away from him. Thus, Dad really can't be blamed. Teenage daughter isn't used to having a 3 yr old around, so of course, didn't think to remove bone from dog while child was there... So, she can't really be blamed....
I am the owner of said dog, but, was not home at the time... so I can't really be blamed....
However......
Incident happened, SOMEONE MUST BE RESPONSIBLE.... who is it?
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I am taking the responsiblity because the dog (and all of his teeth) belong to me. From that day onward, when the little boy is at our house... Dillinger will be muzzled ( :( ) I hate the thought of it... dog hates it... little boy is sad because his 'buddy' can't play with him now.... Dad is upset because he KNOWS the dog and boy love each other.... but, the reality for me is this..... LIABILITY! I would not be able to rest at night if that little boy is scarred, disfigured, or dead due to my negligent actions regarding my dog. So, I hope this helps with your decision regarding what to do with your dog/boy problem... Please be Pro-Active and eliminate the possiblity of damage to your son or any other child who may come in contact with your dog....
Nothing can replace proper training and socialization for both puppy and child... but, you can protect them both in the mean time.
Good Luck

Answer:
Wouldn't it be easier just to put the dog in an area of the house where the little boy isn't when they can't be supervised? Muzzling doesn't seem like a great solution to me . . . I think it would be safer, in the long run, to focus on training the little boy not to take treats from the dog--and not toys either! Even if the dog "doesn't mind", what if the little boy is in a home and comes across a dog who DOES mind? That could be a disaster! :(

I will say that it's easier said than done to supervise kids and dogs at all times, especially if you have several. My grandparents on one side had seven kids, the grandparents on the other had ten . . . Well, how are you going to supervise all those children at once, even without taking the dog into consideration? Especially back in the days before convenience food, disposable diapers, and washing machines? However, back then kids were taught to be responsible and mature much earlier. The older kids would help out with the younger kids.

So I do think that if a child is mature enough, physically and mentally, they can be trusted around animals alone. But it takes honest, accurate judgement on the parents' part.

Three is too young to be alone with animals, but not too young to start learning and loving them.

~LM~

Answer:
actually a muzzle tells the dog there is something to fear, which means that the dog will start fearing the little boy. I just say that no bones are to be given to this dog at all. And when he is playing with toys, make sure they are supervised at all times.
Boyfriend is one to blame because of giving a high value item without actually being in the room to supervise.
I have a 18 month old rottie that my daughter( 2yrs old) plays ball with, and plays well with, BUT anything of high value he is crated. Anything can and could happen. I take precautions before hand.
As for the little boy, he should never be around the dog when he is eating, let the dog eat in peace, whatever the item is......
Please do not muzzle, it will just further the problem

Answer:
Wjranch, while I was reading that, I was thinking the teenaged girl should have stepped in if she saw the little boy going near the dog with the bone. Little kid + dog + bone = never goes well. I remember knowing that when I was around 5. I know she's your daughter, but to me, if she was around, and she knows your dog.... I don't know - if it was my family, and I was anything over 5, I would have been expected to know better. JMO... Hope it's not too harsh.

Answer:
I agree Prin, my daughter SHOULD have shown more intelligence in this situation.... but, she's a selfish, self centered 15 year old. Dillinger is Very rarely allowed a treat like a rawhide chew. She was simply tired of his attention demands and wanted him to leave her alone.... So, she gave him the bone.... This was while she was home alone with the dog.... it was about 1/2 hour later boyfriend came home with little boy, and didn't even KNOW the dog had this treat. So, it comes down to this..........
Bottom line... little boys mother is not happy (understandably so) and contacted animal by law..... I've been 'unofficially' ordered to keep the dog muzzled at anytime this little boy is in my home.... period.
I don't personally agree with muzzling in this situation either, however, it's Dillinger's only option right now. I love him, and want to keep him with my family and alive. *Thank you to Bill C151 for allowing my local bylaw officer the Authority to enter my home against my wishes and remove and destroy my dog if he sees fit.... :(

I have purchased a very simple muzzle that will protect Dillinger in the event the by law pops in for a check up visit (which I'm expecting because little boys mom will phone them and see to it...she's already stated she wants the dog dead!) it's called a comfort muzzle and it's 2 velcro straps that are connected under the neck by a strap of elastic... it's sold as a temporary, easy to use protection for dog handlers or vets... he does'nt like it much, but, doesn't freak out either when it's on.... no head rubbing, face scraping... he just stands there looking sorta sad :(
We, of course, do teach the little boy proper treatment of the dog...respect, etc.. he is not allowed near the dog when he eats or drinks.... Dillinger is fed in a seperate room so he can have his privacy and not feel like he must gaurd his dinner... (he doesn't food guard anyway, but, it's best that way)... and when the little boy and dog play with toys (either the dogs or the boys toys) we've taught him to use commands to get the toys from the dogs "ie: drop it and leave it" and the dog obeys .. this was one of those fluke moments that in hind sight we can analyze the hell out of... but, can't change that it happened.

p.s. the bite I'm refering to was not even as bad as the one this thread began about... it was on his forearm, 2 small marks,1 that broke skin... it was bruised though from the pressure I guess...
So, basically, my hands (and my dogs mouth) are tied in this situation.... in order to protect the dog and not jeprodize my boyfriends access to his son, I must follow the recommendations of the ByLaw Officer.

Answer:
I would make sure there are no rawhides in the house. Even dogs who don't guard other things seem to do so with these treats.

I never give my dog rawhide, not because she guards it, but because this is not a good thing to give most dogs.

Answer:
Originally Posted by wjranch
Dillinger was laying around chewing on this wonderful treat (he rarely gets these things)
Little boy goes up to the dog and attempts to take the bone. Dillinger snapped and bit his arm.

I think nature's sense should kind of put a red flag on all of us to know that animals may react different when it comes to treats. I had issues iwth Hunter because I had to feed him outside of his crate since he got a batch of diarreah and soiled his cage by accident. My husband is cleaning the cage, I'm feeding him on the kitchen floor, and Thunder approaches to sniff his food. Hunter goes on the defense and barks very aggressively at Thunder. I step in to move Thunder out of the way. Hunter attacked my hand - snarling and growling the whole way. He's only 11 weeks and 6 lbs but IT HURT! I think Hunter lost track of what was going on. After I pried my hand out of his mouth I removed his food and held it with me. He calmed down and he was wagging his tail, looking at me expectantly. Then I fed him the rest of his food from my hand until I could put the plate back down and pet him while he was eating. We normally leave him alone to eat in his cage but I felt that I should be able to do ANYTHING (remove treats and toys) from him without him attacking me like that. At 6 lbs it wasn't as bad, but I can't imagine him as an adult dog doing that! And this wasn't breakfast either to where it would've been the first meal of the day. HE gets fed 3 times a day and this was lunch. Not that far from breakfast either.

Whenever there is food/treats involved animals are bound to react differently than we expect - instincts kick in - there needs to be measures so that the dog feels safe when he's eating.

By the way, from now on we feed the cats in their room first and close the door BEFORE we feed Hunter to make sure, even if he is in his cage, that he's not bothered by them.

Answer:
I am sorry to hear about the bite on your son rivers - dog bites can happen anytime even if you are right there and with adults,

A while back I was at a friends house for a play date with my son and they had a small black dog dont remember the breed.

My son is always taught to ask before petting anyones dog. So he asked if he could pet their dog and was given the okay - as soon as he petted him and it was gently as we were right there and I was watching - in a split second he was bitten in the eye - luckily not too much damage was caused - he wasnt afraid of dogs after that - but he was afraid of that particular dog and still is.

Joey has never bitten but he has given warning growls and I know his body language when he doesnt want to be bothered - he will actually stiffen up and sort of stare.

If he is all happy and wiggly and wanting to go up to the kids then its okay - but if its the other way I tell them no sorry.

I think has Rivers is young you have a great chance of correcting this behavior and as your son gets older he will learn the boundaries more.

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