Question:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
A ban on concealed carry permits even though FBI crime stats show time and again that after states pass CCW laws crime rates go down?
There's a testimonial to emotion triumphing over logic.
The states/cities with the most restrictive gun laws in the country are also home to some of the highest crime rates. NYC, Washington, DC, LA.......
Yep, them thar gun bans really do the trick.
Criminals LOVE unarmed victims.
I hope those stats weren't published by the MEDIA! You know how unreliable the media is!...
I think if concealed weapons are going to be allowed...we should issue weapons upon graduation from grade school...everybody gets one...it levels the playing field...


Answer:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
I hope those stats weren't published by the MEDIA! You know how unreliable the media is!...
I think if concealed weapons are going to be allowed...we should issue weapons upon graduation from grade school...everybody gets one...it levels the playing field...
Upon proper completion of the requirements... perhaps


Answer:
Originally Posted by wombat2u2004
Well thankyou Doc....now I can completely disregard my ex's statement that I was animal when we were married.
Now I can rest easy
Wom
I did qualify it Wom...I said MOST!
Doc


Answer:
Actually, ES, they are unfiltered numbers direct from the FBI annual crime stat report. Anyone can look up the data on the web and look at the trends themselves.
Here is a link to one report extracted from FBI crime data, complete with references to where the data was taken from and what year the data was taken from :
http://www.rkba.org/ccw/stat
The Governor of Michigan, who was VERY anti CCW, had a concealed carry law pushed through the legislature against her wishes. She is now a convert after seeing the results of the legislation.
I firmly believe anyone who can pass legal qualifications and demonstrates skill with a firearm (safe handling, safe storage, etc) should be able to get a CCW permit. I see no reason to prevent law abiding citizens from having access to the means to defend themselves and their homes if they choose to exercise their right to do so.


Answer:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
The Governor of Michigan, who was VERY anti CCW, had a concealed carry law pushed through the legislature against her wishes. She is now a convert after seeing the results of the legislation.
I believe she's a Democrat too. I am ok with people owning a handgun
if they are qualified to buy one. I own one myself. It's the auto weapons
with the ability to rip a crowd to bits that scares me. They should not be
sold to the public.


Answer:
Oh goodness...you don't believe the FBI statistics do you? Worse than the media.....
A wild west shootout....what a lovely thought. Lots of innocent bystanders can get shot too! Bullets whizzing through walls into babies's cribs....
We already know that the existing laws are ineffectual in keeping people with mental illness from buying guns "legally"....e.g. Virginia Tech...
and you want to put MORE guns on the streets....
I will not stay in a home where there are handguns. It is too dangerous. I left my cousin's home when I found out her husband keeps handguns around.
There are LOTS of statistics on how dangerous a home is with handguns in it as compare to a home without. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics -- in a home with handguns it is much more likely the gun will be used in a suicide, domestic dispute or accidental shooting than in self-defense.


Answer:
There's a difference, ES.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has an ax to grind. They have been on the HCI side of the debate for as long as I can remember. They came out with a survey that Pediatricians were supposed to give to their patients' parents asking about guns in the home. If I ever get given that survey by a doctor I'm finding a new Doc.
The FBI doesn't have an agenda. Their annual crime statistics report is just that. Statistics. X offenses of Y type per 100 or 1000 people in a given municipality. It is a very dry document. If crime goes up, it states so in the report. If crime goes down, it does the same. The report is done by career civil servants, not political appointees. It's almost impossible to fire them, so there's little leverage available to get them to massage the figures.
I will not stay in a home where there are handguns. It is too dangerous

I guess you won't be coming for dinner, then.


Answer:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
There's a difference, ES.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has an ax to grind. They have been on the HCI side of the debate for as long as I can remember. They came out with a survey that Pediatricians were supposed to give to their patients' parents asking about guns in the home. If I ever get given that survey by a doctor I'm finding a new Doc.
The FBI doesn't have an agenda. Their annual crime statistics report is just that. Statistics. X offenses of Y type per 100 or 1000 people in a given municipality. It is a very dry document. If crime goes up, it states so in the report. If crime goes down, it does the same. The report is done by career civil servants, not political appointees. It's almost impossible to fire them, so there's little leverage available to get them to massage the figures.

I guess you won't be coming for dinner, then.
I am sure the dinner would have been delicious....Pediatricians have an ax to grind. Wow! How about radiologist? They suspect too? ...it seems anyone holding an opinion contrary to yours is suspect. Ever notice that?
With that...I don't trust the FBI....I am a child of the Viet Nam Era...NEVER trust the Feds.... Go see the movie about Hanssen....career civil servants....worse than pediatrician...(with apology to my brother...)
Is it possible peds care about children? Nawwww...just politics....


Answer:
In regards to their "caring" survey, I don't give a damn why they put anything in their survey. What need does a doc have for the information?
None.
You don't trust civil servants, but you trust the media? Now THERE is a problem.
I wouldn't trust a modern reporter to get the color of the sky correct, and if they did by some miracle happen to report that the sky was indeed blue, I'd be running for a window to double check. I've seen the media get too many things wrong and tell 1/2 of the story too many times.


Answer:
I guess no one noticed the students at VT who were in uniform.
I don't know if they are part of a cadet corp, ROTC or ? on campus.
I thought to myself that one cadet with a CW..
I guess allowing people to pack heat on a COLLEGE campus (with all the bells, whistles, pomp and circumstance. of course) and having someone produce a firearm and busting caps-maybe stopping the toll at 15 or 20- would have been out of the question?
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Don't throw out the baby in the crib with the bullet type.
There are a few different kinds of bullets.
Jacketed, hollow point, lead, copper-
Each has a different "use" and consequence.
Hollow point flatten on impact. Telfon coated (mostly illegal to all) are used to defeat body armor. Some police depts MANDATE what type of ammo they use, to cut down on 'innocent baby deaths'. Look at all the ammo the North Hollywood Shootout robbers used- no one wa killed.
I drove the neighborhood the next day- Find a concrete light pole, take your fist, hold it over a section of that pole and picture a chunk that big missing from it. The LAPD also makes a show of parading around two of the squad cars that were shot up. Not really confidence inspiring since they use them at the recruiting booths. The thugs used armor piercing bullets that day.
Contrary to popular belief, not all shootings happen in Hollywood-for some reason bullets behave differently there!


Answer:
ES - like I said before...you know absolutley nothing about Virginia Tech. I dont believe you were on campus, in town or even in the State so do us all a favor; especially me; and quit spouting about it...it is still a sore subject for the VT comunity and you're doing a great job of throwing the same trash into the wounds where our loved ones once were that the media was so effectively throwing. I will tell you right now...I didnt like the media before...but I now HATE them, violently and without remorse....They took our home and tore it apart...they took my family and my community and my friends and they shredded it when what we really needed was support....they prevented us from healing for *weeks* by shoving microphones in our faces and asking us all the things that went wrong rather than what went right...you want to know why I left campus? Because I was going to punch the next reporter who shoved a notepad in my face or tried to sneak into the building behind me because all they wanted was dirt...all they asked for was negativity...and they want at it at all costs....
Let me tell you a little story...there was a sorority girl whose 'sister' was killed in Norris hall....she had an internship at one of the major news channels....so they called her up and asked her to do an interview...saying all it would be about was the community coming together. When she sat down to do the interview they asked her about her sister...and she said 'wait a sec...thats not what this interview was supposed to be about'...they said 'we'll tie it together' and she said no...I dont want to do that....well they called one of the major anchors who looked at the girl and said it would be ashame if you were to loose your summer internship. You think this is right? You think this gets the real story?
Now try to think about that next time you take a jab at my dislike of the media...at my remarks not to trust it. I am *here*....I felt my world torn apart...I watched it and watched it get torn asunder even more by a bunch of talking heads who 'wanted what was good for the students'. Instead of making Jibes in regards to the statements about the media like you have done at the start of several of your last posts you should think about the experience with the media I have actually had.
And here is a little bit of news maybe you didnt know....the problem with the mental health here in this country - Cho walked into the mental clinic of his own accord...so even though he had a court order to go in there it was not recorded as a mental health problem. Thus in the eyes of the state and the government there wasnt a problem. So maybe before we go and change the gun laws we need to change the laws about how our mental health system and how things are recorded.
EDIT : I am sorry if that top part sounded like an emotional rant...but it was...that whole thing is emotional for me and will be for my whole life....I knew I was going to loose friends when I joined the military...but I didnt expect it to happen at home...and I didnt expect my home to be violated as it was.


Answer:
Originally Posted by RICHARD
I guess no one noticed the students at VT who were in uniform.
I don't know if they are part of a cadet corp, ROTC or ? on campus.
I thought to myself that one cadet with a CW..
I guess allowing people to pack heat on a COLLEGE campus (with all the bells, whistles, pomp and circumstance. of course) and having someone produce a firearm and busting caps-maybe stopping the toll at 15 or 20- would have been out of the question?
Richard...I am one of those Cadets...Matt LaPorte was one of those cadets...most of us are going to be going into the military but not all...some like my boyfriend are here just to be in the marching band or to get the military experience...he has no requirements for the military when he leaves though.
You know....I ask myself that same question...what if Matt had had a CW....you know...he was the only student not found shot at his desk...he was on the floor towards the doorway...but that wont ever get reported because he didnt actually get to the shooter...he just tried....which is more than enough to make him a hero in the eyes of all of us...he received full military honors at his funeral.
Currently Concelaed Weapons are allowed in Virginia with a license. However...there is a bill that allows for Campus' to decided whether that bill applies to them...Virginia Tech is one of the schools that has decided it will not and has banned weapons from the campus with the exception of storage in the police station. Virginia State Legislature has a bill right now that would prevent the college campus' from preventing students with CC Licenses from bringing their weapons onto campus. I hope it passes.


Answer:
Originally Posted by Ceph
Richard...I am one of those Cadets...Matt LaPorte was one of those cadets....
Words are hollow, but I am truly sorry about the pain that has visited your world.
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There was one radio moron who was critical of the victims-"why didn't anyone rush Cho?" From what the media reported-I know, what to believe coming from that estate-When he bought the 9mm he also purchased 50 rounds of hollow point ammo- Hollow point rounds are really brutal -just as brutal as the rounds coming out of an assault rifle.
The moron jock was suspended from his gig
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About the coverage.
That AH Karan Grewal made every outlet- One cable network even did an hour 'special' and that little maggot made it on their airwaves....
Sad to think that these idiots refuse to STFU!


Answer:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
In regards to their "caring" survey, I don't give a damn why they put anything in their survey. What need does a doc have for the information?
Save lives? Now...what business would that be of a doctor???
You don't trust civil servants, but you trust the media?
Seen way too many civil servants....too political for my taste. They all seem to have a hidden agenda. J. Edgar Hoover ring a bell?


Answer:
Originally Posted by RICHARD
When he bought the 9mm he also purchased 50 rounds of hollow point ammo- Hollow point rounds are really brutal -just as brutal as the rounds coming out of an assault rifle.
Be sure and thank the NRA for his ability to purchase hollow point ammo! Constitutional Right you know!