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Well Amber and I just came back from the vet for her suture removal. The vet said she is doing very well and has not lost any weight,.........she actually put on a quarter pound. He told me that traditional medecine has nothing to offer her but referred me to a vet that deals with holistic medecine and acupuncture. I made an appt. for March 28th so I will see what she has to say. I am also starting her on Hill's n/d diet for dogs with cancer.
Has anyone gone the holistic route with their dogs? I don't care how much it will cost as long as it does her good and doesn't harm her. I would appreciate any feedback anyone may have on holistic medecine.
Kerry

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hi there, just wanted to tell you all my min pins are now on houlstic and they go crazy for it, it is called chicken soup for dog loves and no it is not that expensive good luck brenda.

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I take care of my son's 6 year old aussie while he is at work. The dog is in its 9th week of chemotherapy for lymphoma and is now is remission. The primary vet referred us to an oncology vet who is handling the chemo.

We too bought the Hill's n/d canned (at a high price) at the primary vet's office. Then, from a suggestion listed on a nutrition sheet given by the oncology vet, we bought Innova Evo dry at a pet store. I compared the ingredients on both types of food and immediately put the Hill's n/d on the back of the shelf where we haven't touched it since. Hill's 1st ingredient is meat by-products and the 2nd is water. In comparison, the Innova EVO's first 5 ingredients are turkey, chicken, turkey meal, chicken meal and potatoes.

The oncology vet said the nutrition goal was to provide food with dietary components as a percentage of dry matter basis in the range of: protein > than 30%, fat > than 25%, carbohydrate < than 25% omega-3 fatty acids > than 5% and arginine > than 2%.

By feeding the Innova Evo dry supplemented with salmon oil for additional omega 3 and fat, we satisfy those nutrition goals. We often add a little canned Innova Evo on top of the dry which seems to increase his appetite.

I understand each dog is different and you need to do what you feel comfortable with. If our Aussie weren't doing as well as he is, I would definitely consider consulting with a holistic vet; or if he were in pain I'd consider acupuncture. I figure more perspectives can only be helpful.

Good luck to you and your dog.

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I have never heard of that food. I am not sure if we can get it here in Canada but I am sure going to see if we do and if not see if I can get it ordered. Thank you so much for your input
Also thank you to Brenda.

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You might be interested in reading more about Innova Evo on the website which is naturapet.com The company makes a couple different brands. I just did a search on the site for stores in Quebec which sell Innova Evo and there seem to be about 20 of them. I don't know if any are close to you.

Good luck.

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I just went to that site and there is one very close to me. Thank you so much I will go there this weekend.

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In a word , no - unless you mean Rescue Remedy to help her relax. But then I have never seen holistic medicine save anyone life who has cancer. It may work differently with dogs - he prob ,means in terms of pain help and hthat sort of thing??? I don't understand to be honest. I never suggest that to my patients - tho acupuncture will work for some ppl for pain but most of the other stuff is untested and does more harm than good - for what I have dealt with anyway.

I guess I would put it this way. When I was diagnosed with cancer - knowing what I know - working with it day in and day out and having treated thousands of humans - but no dogs, admittedly - the last thing on my mind was non traditional medicine. I wanted to live!! I was and am interested in guided imagery - and it does work fairly well with some children who have an active imagination - but that is to take their mind off painful procedures such as bone marrow aspirations, certainly NOT as an adjunct or alternate treatment.

Have you spoken to a cancer specialist? There are sio me for dogs - I think that would be my next step if your vet is not already someone in that field. (I do not want to jump to conclusions and I do not know everything you and Amber have been through!)

There is a good web site called punkie Louise about a very brave cat who battled cancer - forget the url but if your type in Punkie Louise, I am xure it wll come up!

Good luck!!

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Absolutely YES to the Innova. And I would go even further. Keep the appt. with the holistic Vet and get their suggestions on diet ~ they may suggest introducing a home cooked - raw diet. It would have to be done gradually but, the more pure, whole foods you can get into your kiddo at this time the better.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "traditional medicine has nothing to offer her". Is she in the palliative stage at this point or...?

Oncology is a useful treatment where destruction is necessary. Cancer of all kinds require destruction initially. But the problem with onco is it generally destroys the "good" and the "bad" with no discretion and leaves nothing in it's wake. As such every one of our bodies' deeply complex machine-like systems are left reeling. With the destruction of our natural resources to support and self-heal, we are prone to opportunistic infections, disease and organ failure.

So, whether she is in the palliative stage or the "or..." stage, holistic medicine can help if only to support to your kiddo's immune system, digestion and pain management. Our bodies are incredible machines capable of marvelous feats of self-healing given the right tools. Holistic medicine is one of those tools.

If there is an "or..." and you can rationalize the point of continuing onco treatment ~ given everything you know about Amber ~ absolutely see an Onco. But, whether she is palliative or at the "or..." stage I truly hope you will see the holistic Vet.

for Amber and to you.
.

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As an oncologist, I have to disagree with your definition of oncology. Do you practice it?

I know there are negative or adverse effects to some (not all) of the treatments we provide- and as someone who does not just treat cancer but has it and watched my grandparents struggle through it - as well as many friends, and relatives and obviously patients, I cannot see it as negative. I would much prefer to have treatments that do not kill the good cells- as you note and there are some traditional medicine techniques that do that now - especially with some of the new drugs that target certain cells - but I am at a loss as to how living is a bad thing? (and I apologize if that comes across as frustating sounding; it is not meant in that regard).

I just know how many young peole I have seen who were near death walk out of the hospital and return yearly to my office in great health and that is a wonderful thing imho!!!

I don't see anything wrong with a holistic diet but the problem with some of the alternative techniques is they promise what they cannot deliver and some people - wanting the easier way out and not caring for chemo (and I can't honestly blame them having just gone thru chemo myself, it is very exhausting!) but alas, some who might have had more years end up dying. I do have a friend -a Roman Catholic nun - who claimed vitamins saved her cancer and yet another who believe in crytsals in Arizona but alas, both of them are now dead so I am left to wonder about their approach and while I loathe anecdotal observations, those two - plus all the ones I hear and read about it - ensure I will stick mainly to traditional medicine for now. I have no problem with certain cultural groups who have certain beliefs and seek to use some of their methods in conjunction with what we have to offer but that is another topic.

But please, oncology is not a destructive profession or I for one would not be living and breathing it every day!

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I did speak with an oncologist and they told me that type of cancer she has does not respond. to quote the pathology report:
she has a very primitive epithelial malignancy.The tumour is populated by small cuboidal cells with virtually no cytoplasm causing a diagnostic dilemma. a few non neoplastic remnants of mammary gland were found in some locations so the logical choice is for this to be an anaplastic mammary adenocarcinoma. There is however no doubt when it comes to talking about prognosis. the primitive cell type is very bad news but even worse is the presence of innumerable intravascular tumour emboli all around the periphery. only 10% of mammary tumours in dogs are truly malignant and only a small percentage of those are anaplastic tumours like this one. In other words, this is the worst of the worst. the risk of metastasis to inguinal lymph nodes and then to the lung is extremely high.
After the oncologist read this report he told me that I could put her through chemo but the chance of it helping is less than 1%.
I would be willing to to go the chemo route if I thought it would help. I would do anything to get her through this. I really don't just want to give up.
After reading the pathology result what opinions do people have? Could this oncologist be mistaken?
Kerry

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Originally Posted by mytiel
After the oncologist read this report he told me that I could put her through chemo but the chance of it helping is less than 1%.
I would be willing to to go the chemo route if I thought it would help.
Kerry

I dont really think I would be willing to put my dog thru chemo for a "less than 1% chance".

I'd rather see her happy.

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Originally Posted by Quins-mum
I dont really think I would be willing to put my dog thru chemo for a "less than 1% chance".

I'd rather see her happy.

I've been there and same goes for me too. Good luck to you and Amber

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Thank you so much for your support as I do feel guilty about not doing something. I also have a chance to see a homeopathic vet as well but I am really unsure. She is just looking so well at the moment that I am really having trouble accepting just waiting and doing nothing. I feel like I have given up on her. I know that I have to be realistic but I am having such a hard time with this. I have always had animals so this isn't my first time dealing with loss but it has never been this difficult. Sorry for rambling but being able to express what I am feeling and getting feedback from everyone has really been helping me.
Thank you all again.

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You are not rambling on , that's what we're here for. Check your pm.

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Originally Posted by mytiel
Thank you so much for your support as I do feel guilty about not doing something.... She is just looking so well at the moment that I am really having trouble accepting just waiting and doing nothing. I feel like I have given up on her.

Why feel guilty, you are doing something, you are looking at ways to help Amber.
As for waiting and doing nothing, sometimes its so hard to accept that there may be nothing we can do.

I spent so much time trying to "get Cassie well" that I forgot to spend more quality time with her.

Acceptance is the hardest thing to get your head around, and everyone deals with things differently.

Dont ever think that you've given up on Amber, we all know that you are on this site because YOU LOVE AMBER, and we can all tell by what you have been doing for her, that you havent given up on her.
I'll be in touch Kerry

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You are not rambling on at all and with a 1% chance that another oncologist might give you 15% for is prob not the route you want to go either. Granted, we see some miracles with humans - even sans chemo so you never know. A 2nd opinion would not hurt but where this vet is an oncologist, they usually have a good idea.

I am so sorry to hear what you are going thru - I know how hard it i!!! You can support her in so many ways - to make her pain free and relaxed and enjoy the time she has with you!!

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Thank you guys. I will keep you updated. So far so good so I am just hoping it lasts for quite awhile. I am going to get the diet that was suggested to me today. I am also going to keep the appt. on March 28th. At least see what she has to say. Thanks again.
Kerry...............and Amber thanks you all as well
as soon as I figure out how I will try to post a pic of my baby

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