Question:
I am in a bit of a perdicament because I took some of my Golden Retriever's (Leslie) stool to the vets office on Friday and let them know that on the 18th of Febuary me and my husband witnessed her and our other Golden finially mating for the first time. Also that she should be having the puppies around the 23rd-27th and that is was imparitave that we do something to make sure that everyone in this situation is healthy and not put under any strain. They dont seem to be to concerned about her situation so what should I do about her food situation? I really dont feel comfortable cutting back to no puppy food for her at all; expecially that she is probably caring 7-8 pups and that it is so late in the pregnancy. I was told that they will call tomorrow with the resaults but until then I've been doing my best to make her comfortable with food, water and a powered puppy aid with lactobacilli and electrolytes sprinked over her food yesterday per the instructions. Am I doing everything I could be or is there something else? By the way she is on Science Diet Puppy dry and 1/2 can a day of condensed Science Diet Puppy and has been prior to this mishaps and she was fine. I am a very over pertective mother so my childern (only 2 goldens) do not play with other dogs and are inside dogs ONLY.

Answer:
You should have a mentor to ask these questions to. This is a pro spay and neuter board. Without heath certs, titling, and being a fully responsible breeder.. People generally don't have much helpful advice.

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I would take her back to the vet or to another vet.

As Mafia Princess stated, this is a very pro spay/neuter board and many members are involved with animal rescue. Good intentioned people everywhere breed their dogs with no expertise or experience. The end result is yet more puppies looking for homes. Sure, you may find homes for them but that means that another unfortunate dog will not get that home . You state that you are a very loving mother but what guarantee do you have that those puppies will end up in loving homes that won't ignore, neglect or surrender them to a shelter where they may be euthanized.

Please spay & neuter your dogs after this litter. Make sure that you find them the most fabulous home even if that means not getting paid for that puppy!

Also, playing and interacting with other dogs is actually a good thing. It is an extremely valuable part of a well socialized dog.

Answer:
And read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/08/ma...8animal.t.html

Here's a taste:
According to Stephen Zawistowski, executive vice president for national programs for the ASPCA, about four million dogs enter shelters nationwide each year. Some two million of them end up being euthanized, about 5,000 dogs each day, one every 16 seconds. They are not, as is often assumed, merely the misbegotten mutts, castoffs of some imaginary canine lower caste. They hail from every stratum of the human society that shaped them, from all the varied quadrants of our keeping. According to nationwide surveys, as many as 25 percent of the dogs who end up in shelters are purebreds: Boston terriers, border collies, Pomeranians, standard poodles and so on, the sorts of dogs that people pay thousands of dollars to obtain. And yet they are discarded for the same dizzying array of reasons the mongrels are, ranging from the truly fraught to the downright frivolous.

Keeping your dogs inside all the time - especially such an active breed - is deeply creepy. Please tell me you are kidding.

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1) I don't think that if my listing is showing on a board which is called Breed Discussion Information that that would constitute for it to be 'pro spay and neuter'. Also there are many peaces of information on the given by vets on this website in regards to pregnant dogs.

Well I was under the impression that my vet who is making thousands off of me for my pets per year is supposed to assist me when I bring a sample in; but I guess that is why I was asking the question here because I never got a definitive answer to my question like a concerned breeder.

I ALSO DO comply with all the goverment and AKC regulations for breeding by dogs. I kept track of the breed, the bloodlines, and genotype characteristics. I just don't have anyone apparently whom I can speak to in my area other than my vet; who by the way, is supposed to assist me in manners like this and be one of the fore most experts to say something to me if he thought I was getting in over my head.

I just basically need to find out if I am being TOO much of a concerned mother or if this is just a normal accourance (other than change of food or dog in garbage).

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If you don't like the answer you got from your vet then try another vet.

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I agree. And, also, I would change dog food to a premium/holistic brand as Science Diet is one of the worst out there.

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Really does make me wonder it anyone on this site takes a look around at all the information that is actually given on all the areas of this web site. Take some time out from giving information and read some. You might actually find out something new.

Badger, I made it very clear that the other dog that was involved was "my dog" not a mut or some dog off the street, at the dog park, or the nextdoor neighbors dog. Also they were mating in the house and I always keep them in the house: I live in a desert....Las Vegas.

I also have received several request for puppies but I also am doing a extensive background check on any potential owners so if they mind than they need not apply. That is the most that any respectably breeder can do to protect the lives of the puppys. You all must be assuming I am doing it for the money - like a lot of people must do; sorely mistaken, we do it for love of the breed and the love of our fabulous Dogs. They both have Fabulous pedigrees and mean too much to me to harm them.

Answer:
Originally Posted by rainbow
I agree. And, also, I would change dog food to a premium/holistic brand as Science Diet is one of the worst out there.

Thank you....everyone seems to be so tight lipped about a little bit if information. She was on Natural Ultramix for a while but started boycoting it so we had to change it up. That was about 7 months ago but I will get some today or a puppy verson and wing it in her food for about 7-10 days.

I guess that's the problem..the vet is not really telling me to do anything different than what I am. I just always believe that first hand experiance is better than what even some DVM can give you. They only see so much and sometimes they can even contradict eachother...they are only human.

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Be very careful when changing her foods. Do it slowly over a period of at least a few weeks or you will probably cause further digestive upsets. I would actually recommend that you do a home cooked bland diet for a few days to see if that helps (chicken, rice & veggies).

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Thanks that was a good article badger, puts things into perspective doesn't it.

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http://search.petfinder.com/search/search.cgi
Doesnt seem to be any shortage of Goldens in Vegas.

And I agree, if you dont like the services from your vet... find a new one.

And what on earth would living in the desert have to do with keeping such an active breed in the house all the time?

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No No NO of course I take them outside for walks, to the park and play fetch, and swimming- we built a pool even before we moved into our home for them, a very big pool, with not only steps to get out but a slanted entering area for those lazy ones. 2 Goldens in one house is like 2 bulls in a china shop.

They also know 2 or 3 other dogs in the area that I deem acceptiable to play with and I would allow to play. Mainly because I trust the parents and know there vet practices. The parents are the ones being judged not the dogs. My job as a responsible dog owner is to pay attantion to the detail and notice everything. It's not crossing the line or mean to say "no" sometimes to allowing your dogs hang out with others...plus dogs are a lot more agressive at play too.

What I mean is too many people take there dogs to the park and hang around with dogs that they don't know and well dogs lick butts, sniff and rub on eachother and a lot of stuff can be spread that way. You wouldn't just go up to a stranger and get that close to them now would you so why would you let your dog. You should love them like they were your own. Also I mean I have read places on this website of people leaving there dogs outside at night...well, I don't even need to tell you that that is a no no. I live in a desert meaning in the winter it is very cold at nite and in the summer and even now spring it is very hot and we have a pool outside but like any child your dog MUST be monitored while outside at all times. Rocks, sticks from palms trees and bugs.. very big ones (1 1/2 to 3 inches) are all chocking hazards and a dog can and will drowned in a pool very quick. Now I know Canada can be nice at nite but I still wouldn't leave my dogs outside even if I lived in the ideal climate of southern California.

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If your dog is vaccinated I really see no problem with them playing with others but its your call.
Have you found another vet to help you out yet?
Seriously if you are unpleased with your current vets ability to explain and help its time to find another one.

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Vets Office called me a second ago and said that stool sample came back fine and that after he (the vet) gets done with surgery he will call...they know me over there and know how I need business pertaining to the handling of my animals to be conducted. Just my normal vet was not in on Friday or Saturday so I was stuck with people who are not as professional.

I would suspect that someone with as many pet would say that about play but if your dogs got Giardia you would be very upset because it is carried by stool and can be passed to cats, other dogs, your rabbits if the dogs give them kisses, and even YOU. Educate your self, knowledge is power. Stats show that most people dont wash there hands enough anyways and even if you take a toy out of there mouth and 2 min later touch in or on yours you can get sick or even get others sick.

That is only one of many thing that your pet can get from other and cost you thousands...cause you would have to get it taken care of because if not you would have a bigger mess on your hands when you have to clean up poop.

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Ah. Yes. Knowledge is power.

Having dealt with Giardia, I can tell you that the chances of your dog getting it from the stools of another dog is slim to none. The survival in stools is minutes, not hours or days like other illnesses.

While I am glad that you are comply with both government regulations and AKC guidelines, I am not impressed. Both government regulations and AKC guidelines allow for commercial breeding of sick, dying puppies as so eloquently demonstrated by what is available in your local pet store with AKC papers.

I'm not a "golden person" so I am not up to date on the genetic issues that plaque the breed, but if I were looking for a breeder (of any breed of dog) I would be much more impressed if the dogs involved in the breeding had both been shown to a championship to prove that they meet the standard, titled in obedience or another performance venue to prove their temperment and I would want to see OFA and CERF's for any and all genetic testing. And I sure wouldn't give a dime to a "breeder" that couldn't supply with all of this.

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Hope your dogs are ok.I would spay and neuter them both asap.

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To LavenderRott, I am ashamed that you have dealed with Giardia before and still are so sorely informed...a little bit of basic education on Giardia: 1) It is a one-celled, microscopic parasite 2) Once a pet or person is infected with Giardia it lives in the intestine and is passed in the stool 3) MOST OF ALL Because it is a parasite it is protected by an outer shell, it can survive outside of the body and in the environment for long periods of time. It can live in warm water (stream is most common), lake, and most of all; which should have been told to you is that it can live in soil.

Also about the pet stores it is just out of control. People go into these places one not knowing what all intales in taking care of a puppy or dog. The stores are only concerned in the sale not at all educating the potential customers and the people aren't even asking the questions that they should to the store and themselves. Probably most of them are in debt to there eyes and are adding something living with an unlimited cost potential.

But showing in championship may not always be what is allowable for the person. Have you considered that? I love my dogs but I would rather have fun with them on vacations than go to show. Both of there parents were in shows and I have all paperwork on there genetics and my vet has already done test for the common problems pertaining to this breed, so I have those. I haven't had any people that are concerned with the temperment of a Golden Retriever plus they both have been professionaly trained after I bought them...one my next door neighbor is a professional dog trainer. But that is good for other that dont quite know.

Answer:
Well, there is a vaccination for Giardia as well. My dogs all get it.

Also is more commonly spread through contaminated drinking water AKA "Beaver Fever"
http://martin.parasitology.mcgill.ca...ol/giardia.htm

As well as http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...S=0&C=0&A=2386
After a short period of time outside the host’s intestine, the trophozoites round up and form cysts that enable them to survive environmental conditions without a host to protect them. The cyst can be dried out to decontaminate the environment, but if it is cold and wet the cyst can live for many months with two incompletely formed trophozoites inside, ready to infect a new host. Contaminated water is the classical source of a Giardia infection
So where as it is possible for Giardia to be spread through feces it is quite hard for it to survive very long in the desert.


But showing in championship may not always be what is allowable for the person. Have you considered that? I love my dogs but I would rather have fun with them on vacations than go to show. Both of there parents were in shows and I have all paperwork on there genetics and my vet has already done test for the common problems pertaining to this breed, so I have those.
So I take it your results are part of the stats here for Golden Retrievers?
How did your score?
http://www.offa.org/stats.html#breed

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but bever fever... such a funny name....


i found this info.... from
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex736?opendocument

How do dogs get Giardia ?

Giardia is transmitted from host to host by ingesting cysts in contaminated feed or drinking water. Cysts may also be found in streams or other water sources.

The trophozoite stage may also be infective to dogs. This stage does not survive for very long after being voided in the feces. Therefore, it probably does not contribute significantly to the transmission of Giardia.


Answer:
Originally Posted by ~michelle~
but bever fever... such a funny name....

It is a funny name, but mostly spread ( around here anyways) by infected wildlife's feces and what not running into creeks and animals or people drinking that water. So... Beaver pee n poop in the water = beaver fever

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yeah i got the boys vaccinated against it too because they like to drink oocky water all the time, and play in swampy water! i actually was told raccoons carry it most often and spread it by their feces getting into water (in my area ....so my vet said) but raccoon fever doesnt have the same ring...
hope your dog is ok and this wont have any effects on the puppies and their development.
golden retrievers are abundant however and only the best of the best of the best should be bred as there are many goldens homeless. Please consider a spay in the future.

Answer:
Originally Posted by ~michelle~
but bever fever... such a funny name....


i found this info.... from
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex736?opendocument

But the main issue is that the stool is often not picked up right away and even if it was it can still live in the soil and I assume the grass will have poop on it as well, so what if your dog sniffs "and" licks another dogs butt at the park and he has it than the likely hood of your dog getting it goes up right? He/She can also get it not only from water but stool and it doesn't take long. If humans can get it quick than it is much easier for a dog sience they have no understanding that we don't mess want them to mess with other dogs butts.

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It may be hard to survive in the desert but understand this about 4-6 thousand people move to Vegas a month with there pets and we may be a desert but the city funds allow us to have a lot of parks with lots of trees for shade because 100-120 F is the normal for us so we are used to it. During the spring and summer evenings is when most of the people go out and take there pets. The temp. can drop to 80's and there you go ripe conditions.

Giardia is just one of many reasons I don't do the park thing. I give them the socialization with dogs and owners I trust and know. You just never know what type of personality a dog might have about another dog even if they socialize well with people. The whole leader of the pack thing. I have very happy, friendly, and playful dogs but other dogs might not be used to that even if you introduce them very slowly. The whole leader of the pack thing.

Answer:
Originally Posted by erykah1310
So I take it your results are part of the stats here for Golden Retrievers?
How did your score?
http://www.offa.org/stats.html#breed

*snort* erykah!

I wouldnt do the "park thing" either with your intact dogs Erika.Again,wish you would spay and neuter them now.

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I am a member of a group that rescues golden retrievers. Dogs that are given up daily for dumb reasons are surrendered to us so that we can rehome them. The reason we have to do this is because of puppy mills and backyard breeders who wipe their hands of the puppy once the transaction is finalized. You say your dogs have great pedigrees. Do the have clearances for hips, eyes, heart etc... Do they have any titles or competed in any kind of obedience? If not then you should not be breeding your dogs and you should leave it to the people who do. There are thousands of goldens that need new homes and your bringing more into the world takes homes away from them and condemns them to death.
This is the reality. If you are not doing it for the money, then why are you? There are plenty of beautiful dogs available. Take it from me and others who do rescue work, we don't need anymore puppies.

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Good post Copperbelle.

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