Question:
that's Honey's diagnosis.

now, i can get her on one of two things:

1. an Estrogen Suppliment - vet recommands this for his dog, after some weeks/couple months (?) session ends and there's no need for her to go on it again, side effect = may reduce bone marrow.

2. Fino Probaliny (sp?) - taken daily, side effect = increases heart rate, may cause hyperness in dog.

I'm planning to pick up the Estrogen Suppliment by 7pm 2night... DEBATE!



Answer:
She's leaking urine?

Hmmm when did that start? Was this what we all thought was submissive urination? So she's doing this all the time now? Poor girl!

I haven't heard much about either of the two suggestions your vet gave you Aggie but I'll peak on the net to see what they say about it.

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ya it probably started there

but she also leaks on the sofa... and my BED

did I mention she actually leaked alllllllllll her urine while she was sitting on my LAP??!

yup. i love her. she's SPECIAL

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Something tells me it was from the spaying....guess that can happen.

I looked at this stuff u may wanna read. The East York clinic sells a lot of homeopathic stuff give em a call see what they sell for this treatment. They are nice people there. Give Honey a hug for me!

http://www.vtvets.org/htm/handouts/urinary.htm

Complete blood count & urinalysis prior to beginning treatment


http://www.bullwrinkle.com/index.htm....htm~indexmain
Bovine ovary powder nutritionally provides natural estrogens and works synergistically with the phytoestrogens provided by licorice, wild yam and other ingredients. Research indicates that phyto-estrogens may help strengthen the bladder and sphincter muscles and improve muscle tone.


(that means from cows)

http://www.katberard.com/hea_incontinence.htm
Sometimes spay surgery can inadvertently cause damage to the bladder or bladder sphincter, or the nerves which enervate the bladder. The nerves may or may not recover/regenerate. The change in hormones experienced during pregnancy, and after the spay procedure, can also greatly affect bladder tone. I have heard the spay procedure called “surgical menopause”.

**natural supplements on that site for suggestions**


http://www.heroswaggintrain.com/health/premarin.htm
Don't Let A Vet Prescribe Premarin for Your Dog!
National Humane Group Urges Vets and Caregivers to Consider Cruelty-Free
Alternatives
Premarin is a hormone replacement therapy made with estrogens derived from
the urine of pregnant mares. It already is being prescribed to an estimated
9 million American women to treat menopausal symptoms and, as we've recently learned from our UAN members, is now being prescribed to treat incontinence, hair loss and possibly other ailments in dogs.


http://www.holisticpetvet.com/index.htm
This place is in our city and they're great

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i think i'm gonna be sick.... i was eating my ice cream while reading that premarin *barf*

thanx, luba, i'll check out the sites right now

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yw dear!

Yes the premarin is awful.

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the ho's gonna be on stibeostrol... haven't started yet actually.

wanna read something on it... 24 pills, 1mg each, gonna last about 10-11wks?

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that info is really interesting. charlie has leaked all her life due to her bladder muscle being severed during her desex op (later found out the vet was a butcher by his ex vet nurse), but i wonder if it is my fault cause i did her at 4 months?? maybe she was too young and not developed, but the vet didnt think so and got his $190 charge out of me for it (she has never developed real nipples and i thought this was because of her age at desex, has some small skin discolorations where should be but 2 have formed sortof). my solution has been to train her to pee, i can take her out and she will 'waz'. when she was a pup everytime she peed i would say happily, 'have a waz' and give heaps of praise for it, it worked.. i try to do it regularly to avoid probs and generally do, but some days are jsut worse than others, and for instance she will be asleep and i will find a puddle at her bum, if i show her (i try to hid it from her) she is very surprised, but i never go crook for it as i know it isnt her fault, but she still feels bad cause she knows it is a no no and is not happy doing it. the only thing a vet ever sadi (this was when younger, about 7 years ago) i could do was to give her a hormone therapy, the therapy involved inserting a needle into the bladder muscle and pulsing hormones into it to make it spasm and thus strengthen, i was horrified at the suggestion (and the thousands of dollars it would cost) an refused to consider it, and we do ok most of the time and control it, btu there are bad days but we are used to it now. i have heard older females that have been desexed become incontinent at around 12yo but charlie started this at about 1yo and is now 8yo.
please let me know what you use, and it success and side effects on honey, i would be really interested in finding out if they work, but i often think charlie is older now so would it be worth the side effects to fix it when we have it mostly under control. please let me know
thanks again for bring this thread here, it is really educational.

Answer:
wow! i'm flattered... and relieved.

here's what i know.

honey got this thanx to her spaying... bc of the removal of the ovaries, she no longer produces any estrogen. the muscle is weaker bc of this; therefore, estrogen suppliments are considered best.

she cant control it, it leaks out. it's inconsistent so i would say ur really NOT controlling it... Honey can hold it 10hrs on some days and 5 min on others...

she had a urinalysis completed which came out completely normal, ruling out a urinary track infection.

$100 for a blood test that'll only confirm my belief that nothing out of the ordinary is wrong w this Ho? naw, lol. she's get plenty of spunk. except when it comes to her leakage.

I would recommand u do something about it, even at this age (i'm no vet, i suggest u go see one, however ) and find out what's best for ur Charlie

the vet mentioned scolding occuring on the genitals after occurance. he said i COULD remove it. but that's hardly the cure, right?

I was telling my bf over the cell on a crowded bus that I had gotten estrogen pills today for my baby girl... "she's only 2!"

LMAO, i wonder what ppl were thinking!!!!!

the 24 pills came to under $30 CAN. I consider that decent.... and it better work!

ps. doggie diapers will NOT do.



i'll definitely let u know how it's going, melanie

(Honey says "hawwo melanie" and "fanx for da hug, Luba aka mommy #2" )

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hawooooo to you too honey for me and charlie. yeah i will discuss it with the vet next week when we go for annual checkup. she has a fair bit of life left yet so it may be worth fixing, but i will only do soft meds (i am really scared of using chemicals in her system), nothing like the treatment i mentioned above, nah, not on my baby they wont. sometimes it wont happen for ages, then in summer it could be every day. i just try and get her too pee often. groses my 9yo nephew out, but like i told him, 'it is only dog pee so get over it, it wont kill you' funny dogs. keep us posted and big hugs to honey and her mum from charlie and me

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aaAWWW fank u!!

regardless of the age of my dog, i wouldnt let her go thru w a surgery like that either!!

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Hey so you don't mind the pee on your lap

Neither would I Aggie. Sadie's spay is coming up soon and if this should happen to her (which I'm hoping it doesn't) I wouldn't put her through surgery if there were herbal tx's either!

She will be fine I"m sure after you finish the treatment Aggie. If not then you can cross that bridge when you get there!



Let me know how it's working out! I bet Choco's making fun of her for her pee pee problem.

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well dont meen to be forwrad or anything but i have this problem following surgery 2 years ago - i have an awful bladder; urge and fequency incontinence and we have tried everything i have been on every kind of pills imaginable and now after to years of running to the loo up to 60 times a day and up to 15 in the night i fear i will have to resort to surgery. The pn;y thing i have found that helped was a long course of low dose anti biotics i had a low level infection un reconginsed by blood tests etc this was making it worse - that could be a possibility. Any kind of surgery has complications but for a young dog or a young person (im 20) or anybody to be made like this because of any surgery is unnacceptable. It limits the things i can do eg go on a bus or do certain jobs ( beleive me i know every public toilet for a hundred miles!) You should see peoples faces if i go out with my mates they must think i just enjy spending my evening out on the toilet!!

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oh you poor ting. you can really symapthise with charlie and honey but they are dogs . how awful for you, all that worry and surgery, i really hope you get better soon, it must be so hard. i hope it doesnt affect your health later on in life and i really really hope the doctors can fix your worries, please look after yourself and make sure you treat yourself once in a while, you deserve special treatment and extra hugs, you have officially been huged by me and charlie.

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*Update*

on day 5, Honey peed about 70% on the bed then she normally would have ( )

she still pees a lot on walks, but can hold it in the house for long hours, YAY!!!!!

to date, she has only peed that once in the house. (double YAY!)

she's taking her pills, which she loathes. after opening her mouth, and tossing the pill down her throat, i quickly blow into her mouth so she gets distracted and doesnt attempt to spit the pill out. IT WORKS EVERY TIME!!

she still barks -- oh wait, that doesnt have anything to do w the pills.

all's good. so far.

Answer:
yay for honey, good to hear. has she had any side effects at all, anything?? how old is honey, i know it is hear somewhere but to blind today to find it. good tip for giving pills, will try that. give honey a big kiss from us gals and keep us updated

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she's roughly 2yrs old

no side effects that i see yet... xcept when she sees me going to get the pill, she runs

Honey's doing great actually. thanx for the hugsssssssssssss

*sending some more right back at 'cha!*

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I have to give Puss-Puss a pill every morn and nite. She actually lets me know when its time and all but opens her mouth for it. Doesn't do that yet! As soon as she gets her pill, I give her lots of loving and feed her. She associates the pill with food and attention.

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i initiate the food command when i wanna get them in the house and YES, i provide it EVERY time.

as for the pill, i usually give it late at night and still attempt the hugs, but she knows what she really got....

Answer:
Hi, I have a 5 year old rottie who was fixed, frig I forget the name for it, when she was only a few months old, recently, probably 6 months ago, she started "leaking" the clear stuff, only it has no odor, it is not urine. A urinalysis showed a bladder infection which she was treated with antibiotics at that time. The leaking stopped, then a couple of weeks ago it started again. I feel so bad for her, she has had a rough 5 years. Anyway, I sent another U/A to the vet and they said everything was fine, her Ph was up a bit but no infection. They suggested she take stilbestrol 1mg, 1 tab for 4 days then 1 tab every week. I started her this morning, but it seems funny that it was a bladder infection which the antibiotics helped and stopped the last time, why couldn't they have given me amoxicillin or something instead of a hormone? Anyway, any help will be appreciated.
Connie & Sasha (rottie)

Answer:
Are the pills hot pink color? When Jemma started it was one a day for 7 days. Then every two days, then three etc, down to every two weeks and then she still leaked so we moved her back to every week. She's been fine since.

I would have guessed that it was hormonal from the beginning... I would stick with the hormones a bit and see if that puts an end to it. If it is, you'll see- these pills are the only ones I know of that a doggy will run for when you shake the bottle...

Answer:
My girl brandy is on the "hot pink pills" too, she has been on them for 2 yrs one once a week, then a few weeks ago she started losing total control so she got one every day for 3 days and now one every 5 days, we have had one accident since so it does work just takes time to figure out the dosage, they don't know why she was having such big accidents instead of just the leaking, had a urine test done and the whole works and everything came back fine.

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I see this is actually an old thread, but probably always timely. Shadow has spay incontinence and is on the pink pills. We were one a day for a week then one a week for several months. When we were out we were told we could probably go about eight months before it acted up again then start more pills. I now give her one about every two weeks and it's just fine. And Prin is right - Shadow comes running and sits in front of me when I shake the bottle.

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lol, ya I think Honey was on those same pills... can't remember for sure since it's been over a year now.

anyhow, she hasn't leaked the pee since (that I know of)


good luck with your situation!

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The side effects include bone loss and osteoporosis, but as long as your doggy is fit and healthy, it shouldn't be a problem.

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